Dawn Taylor|5/8/2023

Transcript

Dawn Taylor

I am your host, Dawn Taylor, and today we are talking to the fabulous, fantastic, and brilliant Dallas Sleeman. Our topic today is survivor’s guilt. Really, right? Like, this silver lining and grief of survivor’s guilt and how to deal with when you are still alive and someone else isn't.

Before we get started, I want to tell you a little bit about our guest today so you can be excited as I am. Dallas is, I don’t even know how to describe Dallas. She is fearless, she’s a fighter, she’s scrappy, she’s so passionare about creating this space for you to untangle your life, your money, stories, all these things. She is an intuitive financial coach, that's right so she is an executive coach that works around, like, money and all your belief systems on that so if you're interested in planning, please go check out the show notes all of her contact stuff is there, but she is also the cofounder of a charity, um, hello? Amy's House? Like she has done all of the craziest cool things and yeah she is one of my favorite humans so i just wanna say, welcome to the show, Dallas. I'm so glad you’re here.

Dallas Sleeman

Thank you, thank you so much. It’s an absolute pleasure to be here.

Dawn Taylor

So let’s dive in, what is it you wish people were talking about?

Dallas Sleeman

So, over the last four years, it has been an incredibly interesting journey through grief and recovery and losing a best friend, somebody who’s actually more like a sister than a best friend. It was absolutely devastating and being self-employed at the time, I had to figure out a way to a) not go bankrupt because I didn’t feel like getting out of bed in the morning, but also I had to find a way to release, just find new meaning in life when she passed away. It was like if somebody like that can leave this Earth so early then why am I here? And why am I that got to stay when she got to at the time, she was a mother of 2 young children, Annie and Christian were 7 and 9 when she passed and she was like so little, so little and she was this brilliant community connector. 

She built community everywhere she'd go, she was this vibrant, vivacious, incredible person and I remember thinking at the time like I would trade places hundred percent, Iwould have traded places. I would have taken the cancer bullet so she could have stayed and continued her journey and raised her kids and done everything else like that, and so it’s about that guilt of why her and not me and how am I going to take the rest of my life something that I deem worthy of not being able to have her with me because we lost such a bright shining light when she had to leave us.

Dawn Taylor

So Dallas is talking about this amazing woman named Amy, Amy Elaine and she was, I knew her. She was this, just this vibrant little spitfire, petite redhead that sums her up, right? There, she’s a tiny petite spitfire of a redhead, right? But, she was a stunning human and I know we both deal with grief, we both dealt with loss and grieving and death and all of these things and I remember when I was doing my grief training to become a grief facilitator and one of things the guy said was like grief isn't personal and it doesn't have favorites, like it doesn't pick and choose, do you know what I mean? It just happens and it was a funny statement when he said this ‘cause people in the class got real angry. like really angry/

Because we need to think there's a timeline for grief and death and we need to think there's a reason and we need to believe those things and I don't know about you but sitting back and having to accept that and deal with that and process like Amy wasn't your first friend that you've lost either, right? We can dive more into that but it's interesting how so many people, when death happens and grief is going on right we drown, you're trying to cope you’re trying to hold it together, you’re trying to get through that and if you're willing to talk about that, but we'll dive into how you have grieved and actual hands-on tangible things that you did to help you thru the process, but also it is interesting how it’s so easily forgotten after, right? 

Their life, their legacy, what they've done all of those things and I have found and tell me if I'm wrong, but there’s also this piece of like when someone is dying or when they've died everyones like “Oh my gosh. I’m gonna change my life. im gonna do something different and I'm gonna shift my legacy and I'm gonna change all these things and then they don't or they do for like 6 months and then they go back to who they were and the person is so easily forgotten and there's this interesting feeling of like will i be that easily forgotten are people never gonna talk about me again and I don't know

Dallas Sleeman

One of the things that thst brings up for me that I find really interesting is Ithink theres more of a fear and another frirend of mine who recently lost her son, we were talking about it, and the idea that grief is contagious like people dont wanna talk about the sad stuff ‘cause they’re like “Oh, no. I might catch up or I don’t wanna make you cry. I don’t want to upset you. I don’t want to do all of these things so they simply don't address it they don't talk about that person anymore, and so it becomes this unsaid elephant in the room where they're like “I know you’re sad but I don’t know what to do about it, so I'm just gonna do nothing and pretend that everything’s okay.” And hope you just pull through it and it leads to this feeling of isolation, this feeling of not actually being able to talk about the feelings and having to wade through everything on your own and I can describe how it feels like. In the beginning, you're trying to walk through this thick sludge because it colors absolutely every part of your waking existence and sometimes your dreams, so I wish people in a way just talk about grief, period. Don't be afraid to mention the person that passed away. Don't be afraid to talk about the memories that made you laugh or the amazing person that they were, there's a very good chance that their friends and loved ones are going to break down and cry, but that doesn't mean that you've done something wrong.

Dawn

Okay so i love this because when my mom passed away, it felt like everyone just like took white out to her existence and it was so wild and I've had people over the years be like why do you keep talking about her and I'm like cause I don't wanna forget her but also like there's moments, right? Like, at Christmas, my mom’s been gone since 2008 and at Christmas, I was looking around at my nieces and nephews and, oh, my word. My mom would have died, like she would have laughed so hard at this moment or thought this was so amazing to see all of these kids here. And I said something and my nephew’s girlfriend actually started asking me questions about my mom and we were telling stories and laughing and talking, like, why is this such a thing like, why can we not do this? But also the fact that like, do you find this odd belief that tears are a negative?

Dallas

Yes.

Dawn Taylor

Like, people have this idea in their heads that's like, “No, crying is sadness and sadness is bad.” No, sometimes it’s like sad ‘cause you're missing them but also like sad because you're like "No, this is so beautiful and this is such a beautiful moment" and tears can come from beauty the same as they can come from pain.

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely, and I think the other part of it too is the dichotomy that we'd put on emotions. Sadness and anger are bad therefore you should not express them.

Dawn Taylor

I love that you even did a robot voice with that like that is such an ingrained–

Dallas Sleeman

And it's an ingrained societal belief and if we don't learn how to express these emotions, they get trapped inside our bodies and then what? We end up becoming physically and mentally ill because of it and so it's actually the best thing to do. If I'm crying, it is a beautiful moment because that means that my body and spirit is actually moving through that emotion, as opposed to trying to push it down and that's what I did the first time I had a friend pass away. I'll talk about George very briefly. 

George was very similar to Amy, he was just this fantastic human being and I remember when I first met him I was coming out of a pretty terrible, I met him while I was in a terrible relationship but he was one of my major support people while I was in that relationship and after I left it, and he actually made me feel like I was seen for the first time in a long time. I remember this time, walking into a pub it was his birthday and he literally dropped everything that he was doing and he walked over and he was like "Wow, you made it, I'm so happy you're here!" and that was the first time that I felt like somebody had done that for me, and i was like "Oh my God, you actually think I’m special? Wow, thank you." and there was never any, uh, romantic feelings or anything like that. It was just this fantastic friendship and he's also one of the people that was part of the group of four, so it was george, myself, Amy and Robbie. 

And so, two of those people gone so soon, it was like a double whammy, but when George passed away, he was killed in an IED explosion in Afghanistan. He was a middle school teacher as well as in the Army reserves and he was doing a tour as a combat engineer and his purpose was to be helping to rebuild the Afghan nation, and he was so passionate about trying to bring stability and peace and community and all of these things back to a completely different culture. and he had this smile and this joking manner and it was exuded in everything and so to this day his students actually pose on his rest in peace, his memorial page on his Facebook, "Mr. Miacchi would be so proud" or "Mr. Miacchi, I thought of you today when..." and so, he was having these massive impacts on everyone around him and when he passed away, I internalized bad grief. like you couldn't touch it. you couldn’t say his name, you couldn't talk about anything because it was one of those things where I just couldn't, I couldn't look at it, couldn't move through it, I couldn't do anything and so it's like, I wrapped it up in paper mache and duct tape and barbed wire and buried it in my heart--

Dawn Taylor 

You dealt with grief like a lot of people too

Dallas Sleeman

hundred percent, hundred percent.

Dawn Taylor

So listeners, hear this, that is actually a weirdly normal response to grief whether it’s healthy or not, you're not alone so keep going.

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely, absolutely. You're not alone and there was also that discomfort of people around me not wanting to talk about him not wanting to talk about the loss, not wanting to trigger me so to speak, and I think that actually made it more detrimental in the long term because I think the grief got stuck. I remember going to a reiki appointment and this was probably six or seven years after he passed away and the reiki lady, i guess, reiki master, that's the word. She came up to my heart, shocker, and she said "You are completely blocked here." and then she asked "You've lost somebody?" and I started talking about George and this massive burst of energy came off my chest, all of the lights flickered out in the room and it came back on and I was like "Woah, that's what i've been holding inside this whole time." 

And it wasn’t until that moment where I was actually able to start processing the grief where I was able to start talking to George and telling him all of these things I wanted to do but during that time when I had bottled up the grief, it affected all of my relationships, every single one of them - romantic, platonic, familial, everything was colored with this like, you know, gray kind of window because i had this weird feeling that if I let people get too close, I would just get hurt again when I lost them and so, by keeping everybody at arm’s length and it was suffocating, it was absolutely suffocating and so when Amy passed away it was a wake up call because not only had I gone through this before but it was "What do I do now?" If this can happen, what kind of meaning do I have to have in my life to make it okay for me to live and be happy and experience joy when two of my best friends have passed away far before their time?

Dawn Taylor

Yeah. So I wanna go into this a little bit ‘cause one of the things you and I actually did together is, I hope it's okay to talk about it, is we did some pre-grieving on amy. Would you be willing to talk about that a little bit and what that looked like for you and how impactful that was for you in how you dealt with your grief different?

You were like, the motion. took the biggest deep breath and like, ground yourself for a second again, it's alright. We got ya.

Dallas Sleeman

Thank you. Um, this is the thing about grief where its moments you think you're going to be okay and then something hits that button and you're like "oh crap, there’s the intuitions" and I’ve learned to just let them come. That deep breath, allowed tears, all of these things but when it comes to the pre-grieving it was really about preparing myself for the inevitable. The majority of the time Amy was going through her cancer journey, I tried to remain as positive as possible and it wasn’t until the final few months where things really took a turn for the worse and the writing was on the wall. And so, in working with you it was literally one of those moments where you said you have a choice in how you move through this and that to me was like "Really, I have a choice?" 

Dawn Taylor

Yeah, maybe we didn't respond to that in a positive way. 

Dallas Sleeman

Well, and it's not even that I wasn’t responding to it in a positive way, it was this desbelief that I could take control of the situation to a certain extent and some of the work we did was making sure that nothing was lleft unsaid, writing the letters and making sure that she knew how important she was to me and I just, at the end of the day, I was thinking about it this morning getting ready to do the podcast and the last day that she was with us, I drove to the hospital in the early afternoon and I rememebr parking my car in the parking lot and I sat there and I scream cried for a good 15 20 minutes beofore pulling myself togeher and walking into the hospiral and being a strong as I could for her family who was there, who hadn’t moved through the process as much as I had and so I went from the grieving person to the caregiver in an instance of allowing them to talk about the fear of her leaving and the hole that it was going to leave and helping to just move through those mometns and I never would have been able to do that or be present in that capacity had I not worked to accept the fact that this was something that was absoultyely inevitable and it was the most beautiful thing. 

The last thing I said to Amy was “I love you” and at this point she was mostly non-verbal and she managed to squeak out an “I love you, too” and I walked out of the hospital knowing that absolutely nothing was left unsaid, she knew how much I loved her and even though when I got the text later that night that she had indeed passed away and it turned into this void, it wasn’t as painful it was more a "Okay, I can breathe. She is no longer in pain. This hurts, but it’s okay, everything is going to be okay." 

Dawn Taylor

And I think it’s, I often challenge people when they’re going through something like that, when you know something is going on you need to pre-greive, like, you need to process a lot of that stuff in advance and allow yourself to get some of that out of the way as funny as that might sound, to allow yourself to kinda go there and allow yourself to feel some of those feelings in advance and create a plan around it, but we’re so busy trying to negotiate with the universe to keep them alive forever. We’re not actually willing like "No, no, no. Something might actually go 100% according to plan." So, I remember you and I talking about that at one point and I said "You know what though? If you've done all this work and at the end she lives, what was the harm?"

Dallas Sleeman

Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Dawn Taylor

Right? What was the harm in that? And so one thing I did wanna ask you, about not only about the legacy piece that you wanna now leave and all of that but how are you finding creating relationships and allowing yourself to get close to people and connect to people when some of the closest people to you and your life have passed so young?

Dallas Sleeman

I have more close relationships now than I've ever had in my life. and I’m gonna hop into a little bit of what we chatted about right before starting the recording and this idea that if I were to sit down at a table with the women who supported me in creating the change to be able to make a legacy, I would have fifteen women sitting at the table with me and I never would have had that before, and what it’s come down to because I’m allowing myself to openly grieve. It’s been 4 years since Amy passed away and i'm still grieving but it doesn't have that same sharpness to it anymore, it's more of a "Man, this would have been so awesome if you were here because I know you would be so elated to see whatever it is." 

Whether it be the charity that was started in her foundation, and I'm allowed to give myself permission. I have given myself permission to find joy in the fact that I had the privilege of knowing somebody like that. I had the privilege of having somebody show me what it means to be a true friend and I had the privilege of being able to go through my ugly duckling moments of growing up and becoming a woman with somebody who embraced me so fully as a person, and so when i lost that it and having gone through the pre-grieving process it was no longer "Well, if I’ve lost that, I’m never going to have it again." The new mindset became "I know what’s possible." I know what's possible in relationships and of course, it takes time to build trust and it takes time to reach that level where you are so fully open with somebody like you feel like they are a soul sister. Um, but I have that with so many people now, and am I gonna lose them overtime? Absolutely, I will, and I will never know how or when. I don't know if it's going to be, we simply grow apart because of life or you know as I get older, i am going to go through more deaths. I’m going to go through more grieving but I can now look at those, at those opportunities as celebration. I can celebrate what I have.

Dawn Taylor

It's so beautiful.

Dallas Sleeman

My chest, like my heart center, it's just like it feels so full and so at peace and so calm and I never knew that this was possible in grief. I never would have thought that this was possible in grief. I never would have thought this would be possible.

Dawn Taylor

I think so much of it is a choice. 

Dallas Sleeman

It is. 

Dawn Taylor

It is choosing. So, it’s interesting hearing you talk about this because I’m coming at it from the other side as a person who’s almost died so many times and had this like death sentence, right? And it’s a conversation I had last night actually with a friend was I have spent so many years not connecting to people to protect them from the pain of my death.

Dallas Sleeman

Mm-hmm 

Dawn Taylor 

And having to be with me, as I dealt with my health issues and different things and this belief that I was always too much right? And as you’re talking I’m like it's one of my shifts that I’ve been making over this last year is actually allowing myself to connect to people and allowing people in to a different level, and anyone who’s been in my life a long time knows I always just hold people at a certain level that's like as close as you get and everyone in my world is like "I wish that you would just like let people a little bit closer." and I had one guy say one time "No, it just takes a long time, like you just have to be in Dawn's life for a really long time to ever get super close to her."

Dallas Sleeman

Mm-hmm.

Dawn Taylor

But I don’t think that people realize that so much of that came from me wanting to protect them, right? And not knowing anything different because that was developed at 18 years old.

Dallas Sleeman

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Dawn Taylor 

Like, that was literally something that at 18 years old, I was like fully, I just watched how hard dealing with me almost dying was and thinking they'd lost me, I can’t imagine them actually having to deal with losing me so you know what, I'm gonna not connect to them as deep so that that doesn't hurt so bad.

Dallas Sleeman

It's like if you have a smaller footprint when you leave, then it takes less time for it to be covered over.

Dawn Taylor

Hundred percent.

Dallas Sleeman

At the end of the day, it’s more of a gift to the people around you to be able to see you fully so that you are able to have a lasting legacy.

Dawn Taylor

Right? And that's what's so funny to me is over this last like year and a half of dealing with the health stuff for two years now, whatever it’s been, some of my closest friends became with my guy friends, and I was talking to one this morning and we were actually talking about it and he goes 'cause it's a big thought in my mind right now and knowing we were going into this podcast today and he said "Why is that, why are you so much closer?" and I said "Because there’s a natural disconnect because you’re a man" and he just sort of laughed and I said "You can be my best friend, you can be an everything to me, you can be so important to me that I know you can separate your emotion and your logic i know that it'll be easier for you to grieve me than it will be for some of my female friends.” And he's like "Oh, stop it"and he’s bugging me about it, but it is, it’s been a shift this last year of like “Hey, wait I’ve always been super open and super vulnerable with people but i never allow them to go in,right? I always keep everyone just a little bit at arms’ length but it’s a thing of like I wanna protect you, not me 

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely.

Dawn Taylor

And now trying to shift that in relationships and i'm like "That's a lot of work." 

Dallas Sleeman

It is a lot of work, and what's coming to mind for me is as you're talking about this i used to have a similar mindset where it was if I don’t miss you everyday then you're not gonna miss me when I leave, if I can just stop talking to you and it’s not gonna affect my everyday life then that's okay because I don't want people to be that close to me anyway and now I've reached different days where like I don't talk to all of my close friends everyday. Sometimes I go weeks in between having a chance to really talk to them and yet I know we have this connection that goes far deeper than I've ever allowed it to go before and it is a lot of work and I think when it comes down to it the people that we become when we allow ourselves to be that open is so much more vibrant, we're not just showing the fancy little facade on the outside, the mask that we wear for everybody.

Dawn Taylor

Hundred percent. Well, but it’s not like, never even felt like it was a mask, and that's what's so interesting. It's been more of a, I don’t even know how to describe it because i'm authentic to who i am and I’m showing up just as me and no, no no, and we can get deep and have amazing conversations and be really connected, but it’s like, but I don’t ever want you to need me. I don’t ever want you to need me in that way, like, you can need me in regards to like as a friend or a coach or to support you in certain ways or anything like that. But yeah, it’s, like, don't incorporate me into your daily activities.

Dallas Sleeman

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor 

Right? So it’s like a different depth. I know, my brain's entertaining. People laugh at me cause they're just like "no you're a great friend, you're just this hilariously disconnected busy person, like you love us, and you love us so hard but not in a normal, like, contact way." Maybe that makes more sense

Dallas Sleeman

Yeah. Absolutely, and it’s interesting because I would wonder how many people have that thought of "I don’t wanna be needed." 

Dawn Taylor 

Right?

Dallas Sleeman

And how often do we allow that idea of "I don’t wanna be needed" to color our relationships and in a sense when you have gone through grief, it makes sense that you would put yourself in that position because you're not only protecting yourself, you're protecting others But what about the people who haven't been through grief where there's still this notion of "I don't want anybody to need me." 

Dawn Taylor 

Oh, hundred percent.

Dallas Sleeman

And how do we shift that? How do we shift it into connection? How do we shift that into community and coming back to the center? 

Dawn Taylor 

I think a piece of it too is finding safe people so, like, one thing i've talked about openly and even wrote about in my book is like I was born with the inability to bond and that came from literally conception, and not being wanted and all of these things, and this is actually a scientific thing, and so every time I find a client that's dealing with that or a friend that's dealing with that or whatever, there's a different connection almost between them immediately because you're like "Oh you get it, you get that this is like a choice thing when it comes to love and it's a choice thing when it comes to that connection." 

And I do connect, it takes a very long time to go from my head to my heart but I do totally connect and I’m sure you’d even agree with this, like, when I choose you, I choose you in my mind, know what i mean? I'm like "I’ve chosen you, you're my friend, you get put in the box, I love you, I'm here for you, I will fight to the death for you, like, what do you need?" Right? It might take a bit to get in the box but, man, when I’ve chosen you. You’re in.

Dallas Sleeman

Yeah. Once you’re in that box, you’re not leaving.

Dawn Taylor

These podcast episodes make me sound like a crazy person and I get that, but it’s also, like, because we all think about these things so different and believe so different and we struggle so different, it's interesting to even be looking like that, like people are terrified to be needed, right? But then we're also so scared of rejection and we’re also so scared of not being loved, and we get caught in these vicious cycles in our head around all of that and I think I don’t know. I think it's also interesting and here's an interesting piece of grief I wanna bring up is, did you find going through grief ‘cause this is something I found really interesting, is that everybody puts the person who died on a pedestal?

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent, like absolutely.

Dawn Taylor 

They put ‘em up on a pedestal and their shit didn’t stink. Like, they were perfect, and I remember when I was dealing with some grief in my life, and i was like raging angry at the person and some of them were like "How can you mad at them when they’re gone?" and I was like "No, you can love someone and hate them at the same time." And that was an interesting piece for me because I had to go learn to accept that in grieving whether it was like, I’ve lost all my grandparents, I’ve lost my mom, I mean my dad's walked away and I’ve had to grieve like he was, I had like to pre-grieve because he hasn’t physically left this Earth but he’s walked out of our lives and it was interesting how you could love someone and hate them at the same time. But, in order to fully grieve someone you have to be able to grieve all the parts of that. 

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely, and that’s absolutely it. I’ve had conversations about this with people who have also known Amy and there are moments where the positive attributes, I fully believe if it wasn’t for the fact that we choose to remember the positive attributes more than anything else, they're the happy ones, but also the legacy of Amy's House would not be what it is if people were like "Yeah, but she was also kind of a bitch sometimes…” so you know what I mean? And so there are these–

Dawn Taylor

That is awesome. 

Dallas Sleeman

Having that pedestal is advantageous especially when you are building something that is giving back to the community and making such a big difference to so many people, and will continue to make a difference to so many people. But, at the same time i've had moments walking in the river valley where it's so funny because I know there are moments, I know the inner workings. Like, she confided in me all of these things and like, she wasn't perfect and yet we've all just decided to forget everything about that and I think that gives me a little bit of hope in that I’m like "Okay, if I just do a really good job of making people seen and heard and loved and when I pass away they’re going to forget the times when I was absolutely a raging bitch about something."

Dawn Taylor

it gives me hope, Iwill also be remembered as perfect.

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent! I’m gonna build a legacy, I'm gonna hope people are gonna remember me as being a really good person.

Dawn Taylor 

Oh, totally! And you know what, I think I wanna talk about legacy for a second. So, this is a hundred percent no sales podcast. That’s something that I’ve said from day one. I’ve pulled episodes because of it/ I’ve said no to people because of it, but the one thing I do wanna talk about when it comes to legacy is what the definition is for both of us. how you're actually fulfilling that, like the different parts and pieces of that because its so many people think that is like "Oh, my legacy is the money i'm leaving," or "My legacy is the business I've built." or "My legacy is right, fill in the blanks." What did it mean for you? Like, what does legacy actually mean? ‘Cause this word keeps on coming up in our conversation today. 

Dallas Sleeman

So, for me, it goes so far beyond anything that is going to be physically left behind. My legacy, the way I see it is going to be in how I interact with people around me, how I work to empower the people around me, how I work to have people seen and I guess in a sense the lucky thing or maybe, not the lucky thing, luck is a bad word to use in this situation. But, grateful for, to be grateful for, that's it. It's the fact that I've had to go through two major losses. I’ve had the chance to realize that it wasn't what they physically left behind. It was the emotional pattern that they left behind.

Dawn Taylor

Ooh. I like that, emotional patterns.

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent. It's like they didn’t work to uplift the people around them. If they didn’t work to be a positive force for change, there would not be a scholarship put up in George's name. There would not be monuments put up in his remembrance, there would not be ongoing posts to his memorial page by his students and his friends and his loved ones, we would not have an Amy's House.

Dawn Taylor

Let's pause on that, what is Amy's House? ‘Cause it's come up a few times. It’s like a charity and a foundation. This is why I mentioned the thing of not being a sales thing, this is not a sales thing but anyone who knows me knows I’m a charity junkie so I love supporting charities. So, talk to us about Amy's House really quick and we’re gonna put all the information on it in the show notes, but fill us in on what a legacy this is.

Dallas Sleeman

So, Amy's House is Amy's last wish and when she was going through her cancer treatments, she would be in the chemo room for hours on end and she started talking to other patients who were there with her, and she discovered that several of them would travel hours each way everyday. Five days a week to come into the city for their chemo treatments because they could not afford accommodations. They didn’t have coverage or health insurance or whatever they needed to make it financially feasible to stay in the city, and even though there are other cancer houses around, the need for it is so great that there is consistently a waiting list at every single one of them.

Dawn Taylor

Wow. That is crazy.

Dallas Sleeman

It is insane, and so Amy being Amy was like "I’m gonna change this, I wanna make this better. When I get better, I want to make this better." And she took her cancer diagnosis as something of a challenge in a sense where instead of it being "Why me?" It was "How can I use this to create awareness? How can I use this to create change, how can I use this to hopefully prevent somebody else from having to go through the same thing and or support them while they're going through it?" And so, she said to her husband Phil "I want to create a cancer house. I want to create somewhere that people can come to the city and stay for free and be able to go through their cancer treatments without having to drive an hour and a half or two hours when you're already feeling like absolute crap."

Dawn Taylor

Right?

Dallas Sleeman

And so, 6 months after she passed away, and I swear to God, she muts have had a hand in it somehow because I didn’t know how we managed to pull this off in six months, but almost six months to the day after she passed away, we opened Amy's House. and Amy's House has hosted not just cancer patients, but really any patient that had a need to come into town for an extended period of time for medical treatments and we've done it 100% on community support. 

Dawn Taylor

that's amazing. It’s so incredible.

Dallas Sleeman

I can’t believe the number of people that continually step forward and they'll say "I never met Amy but I read her story and it inspired me and I really wanna be a part of this." And that to me is her essence of inspiration and community and creating community, and so the fact that we are physically helping people but also providing them this psychological comfort of having a home away from home. That's amazing. And so as we seek charity status, we are in the process of that right now. 

Dawn Taylor

oh amazing 

Dallas Sleeman

We have run as a non-profit for the last 3 years. we survived COVID. We opened four months before COVID, and the community banded around this and said "We’ee gonna keep this happening" and it's been an absolute privilege to be a part of this, and so, yeah Amy's House is the house that Phil and Amy brought their babies home to, it was their first home and it's now a home away from home for people going through cancer treatments.

Dawn Taylor

So, like, how cool though that not only did, like obviously, like her husband decided to do this based on her wishes and all of those things but you guys now get to be a part of that legacy, right? Part of that legacy continuing that and continuing the dream that she had, like, tangibly hands-on helping people. And when it comes to grief, when it comes to survivor's guilt when it comes to, that's just natural, right? It's a very normal feeling to be "Why her and not me?" Whether it's a health issue or a death or a loss, it doesn't matter. 

That is so human, so normal to feel that way and I know for myself there's gonna be a peace of it, "How can I carry on a legacy?" And for somebody listening to this and thinking, like, "Huh, what is my legacy gonna be?" Right? I think often people go to a place of, like, "Oh, well I have kids, my kids are my legacy." Like, raising them in a specific way but like for Dallas and I, we ain't got no babies, so my legacy is not gonna be my children. 

So "What is it that I wanna do?" And so, for anyone out there with kids or not, without kids, one of the things that I know my husband and I did for our legacy was "What do we wanna instill in our nieces and nephews?" What are things we wanna teach them, what are ways we wanna help them?" So, everything from the crazy trips we take them on to doing charity work with them to conversations we have, the drive, the push, the determination, the support, you know all of that is a piece of like "How do we instill something in them?" To shift, right?

And so for me, it's a ripple effect. Dr. Henry Cloud, I was at a conference years ago, he's the author of the Boundaries books, highly recommend. And he was talking about often people, it's like a boat, and people are so busy looking forward to where we're going and i'm like butchering this horribly but, like, you're so busy looking forward to see where you're going in life and what's going on but you’re never looking behind you at the weight you're leaving, right? And what is the weight you're leaving behind you and the ripple effect at that? And that's this vision that I always have in my head is "What is my weight that I’m leaving?" So whether it's this podcast right? The messages I've gotten from people going "Thank you for that episode, it allowed me to finally, like, push through something in my life where I felt seen and understood." or "Holy cow, I need to apologize to some people in my family as to how I've behaved." You know? Whatever it is, whatever it is. Like, this is a piece of my legacy, to have these hard conversations. My work, your work, how we work with people, how we talk to people, right? I’ve always said that when I die, I want people laughing at my funeral and to be like "She was crazy." Like, "She was hilarious." or "She was nuts." or "She was funny." or you know, "She helped me through a really hard time in my life." or you know whatever, whatever it was but I want that to be the thing, like, I refuse to have someone be like "She was this crotchety old lady that was miserable and she was selfish" Like no, no, no. And that for me was one of the ways that I figured out what I wanted for my legacy, was when I’m at my funeral, if I could actually lay in the coffin and hear what people are saying, what would I want them to say? 

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely and for me, I look at that very much the same way. It's something I love, the fact that you mentioned the wake behind the boat, that was one of the things, when I was in school to get my coaching certification, that they really drilled into us, "Mind your wake, mind your wake, mind your wake.” Because, you have this effect on this one person, you have to be aware of how it's going to ripple out around them because we're all parts of interconnected systems, systems of people, systems of relationships. If I work with somebody on a personal basis, it’s gonna affect them professionally too. 

Dawn Taylor 

always, always. 

Dallas Sleeman

In every aspect of their life. So, when I look at that and again with my legacy, similar to you, I don’t want people to be like the fact that I’m gone, I want them to be asking themselves “How can i do something similar? How can I leave a positive pattern of emotional well-being and societal well-being and deeper connections? How can I create community? How can I support those around me? Because at the end of the day, and this is one of those things that I truly truly believe, that any given society is only as strong as it is when it is working with its most - oh gosh, the word's escaping me right now, but the individuals that have the least–

Dawn Taylor

The most vulnerable sector. 

Dallas Sleeman

The most vulnerable sector, how are we treating people in our most vulnerable sector? And if we're working towards creating a community and society that can actually support those people without it being stigmatized then we're doing something wrong. 

Dawn Taylor

Can I just say that I see you smiling? Because i love, you know how much I love you, and I love your heart and your passion and your love of people and all of these things and you're such an adult compared to me, and here's why I say that and this is like the most ridiculous way to finish off this conversation, but we're talking about what people would say at a funeral and you have, like, this amazing vision of like the conversations people are gonna have and all those things and I’m like, I want people laughing at how i went out. 

I seriously want people showing up and being like "For real, that's actually how she finally died?" It's like live life to the fullest and I think the only reason why, I mean I wish you guys could see this, I'm sitting here, like, smiling and Dallas is having this beautiful intense moment and I’m thinking to myself, I’m actually a 12 year old deep down.

Dallas Sleeman

That's okay. that's okay. Joy is a legacy too, Laughter is a legacy too. 

Dawn Taylor 

So, yeah, it's not at all it should have been. Maybe that is so. I think it's something people need to actually think about in life, and at the same time some people don't care. Some people actually don't care, they’re just living life and they're enjoying it and all the power to you, no shame, no judgment, I love it, I absolutely love it, but for a lot of people, I think this concept of legacy is so intimidating. This idea of grieving is so intimidating, they're like these weird and scary topics and conversations that are actually beautiful.

Dallas Sleeman

They are, they are. Theyre difficult, but, they’re beautiful.

Dawn Taylor

And, I think part of it is like finding safe people, it's like even in finding friends and finding all of those things, I have often said about being my friend is like “No, no, no, I'm the one who you want there in the depths of your hell.” I’m the one you want there when you need someone to be like “No, no, no, I’m gonna hug you and squeeze you and help you put all your pieces back together and i'm gonna grieve with you and youre gonna do what you need to do.” I’m good with that. If you need it you ask, Iwill never push myself on you in that way but I am there if you need me 

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent. 

Dawn Taylor 

Right? And I think because of that, I can be a safe person for someone when they're going through things but, like, I have friends, and not because they're not amazing humans or they're not phenomenal friends or anything like that but it's like “No, no, no. You actually don't have the skill set or you don't have the capacity or you don't, you aren't safe in this moment, for who I need in this moment.” And I think that's a piece of it too, is like finding those people, finding the people you can phone and you can cry to, finding the people that you can phone and be like "I need you to figure how to get me the hell out of this headspace right now ‘cause I have to go into a meeting and i'm sitting in my car bawling." And it’s like "Alright, this is what you’re gonna do" Right? And, like, knowing those people in your life, so as you create your group, as you create your tribe, as you create your support system, as you create these things, knowing you need a little bit of everything. 

Dallas Sleeman

Absolutely. 

Dawn Taylor

Right, and that’s what’s so beautiful about it.

Dallas Sleeman

You need that friend who would go to the depths of hell with you also need the friend that is somebody who you know is just going to simply going to be the class clown, the jester, the joker, that is going to bring this lightness and levity, just because they don't have the skills to go to the depths with you doesn’t mean theyre not valuable. In fact, everybody is valuable. We all carry value.

Dawn Taylor

Hundred percent, right? it's just like the area, and yeah, I like to think that I’m the go to the depths of hell with you and make you giggle at the same time.

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent.

Dawn Taylor 

I can be your class clown and your trauma friend at the same time.

Dallas Sleeman

One thing I did wanna touch on really quickly and I'd, I’m – 

Dawn Taylor

Absolutely, and then we're gonna get into our silly questions.

Dallas Sleeman

Yeah, I don’t mean to throw this in a –

Dawn Taylor

No, no.

Dallas Sleeman

But another thing on grief, and I was having this conversation with a friend of mine very recently and I talked about one of the things that most upset me was when I was going through the grieving process was when somebody would try and relate to me and they'd be like "Oh, I don’t understand why it’s so bad, like, I've lost my grandparents and I mean, it was sad, but you know, I got over it." And I think the dffeerence between losing somebody who has lived a long and full life and somebody who has gone way too soon in George’s case at 28 and Amy’s case at 38. is you now have to grieve everything you don't get to experience with them.

Dawn Taylor 

The lost memories.

Dallas Sleeman

Exactly. They will never be at my wedding if Ii have a wedding. They will never see my kids if I happen to have kids. They don’t get to see and celebrate the growth and changes that I make throughout my life and i don’t get to celebrate them and so I feel grief can have different feelings and complexities and levels which you need to go to and having that understanding and being able to just witness somebody in the depths of their grief without questioning why it's so deep or what is happening and just saying “I will be here, I can be empathetic, I can sit with you in the dark and not feel the need to turn on the light” as Brene Brown would say. that is powerful. That is so powerful. 

Dawn Taylor

It is. So show up to your friends, people. Show up for them. Alright, so we’re gonna lighten the whole mood of this whole thing. Silly question time! Okay, so you guys know that I like to do these silly little questions at the end that are just, like, super fun and just silly, but one big question - what is your secret guilty pleasure way to decompress? I’ve had some good answers and explanations, I'll just say but what is, like, one of your silly things? Is it like 90 Day Fiance? Is it--?

Dallas Sleeman

Oh, no. I would legitimately put on ‘90s pop music and I will do the most ridiculous lip syncing and dance moves, and the idea is just to get so silly that i have to let go of anything that's weighing me down, so it's like –

Dawn Taylor

I love that so much.

Dallas Sleeman

Uh-uh, massive, like, facial expressions and like doing the pop moves.

Dawn Taylor

Okay, so, here's what I’m gonna request for our listeners, not a video, what I’m asking, can you email me even a list of your top 5 or top 10 or something songs that make the best ‘90s lip sync music?

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent. Savage Garden is on that list.

Dawn Taylor

check the show notes! so we can feature Dallas rocking out to decompress. If you have to describe yourself in one sentence, what would it be? Serious or funny, doesn’t matter.

Dallas Sleeman

oh my gosh that's such a hard one. um one word

Dawn Taylor

No, one sentence. We are way too complex these days for one word. I hate when people are, like, "Describe yourself in one word.” and I'm like "Complicated."

Dallas Sleeman

I’m just gonna say "Super complex.", "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious". If i had to describe myself in one sentence, I would say that I am somebody who brings light to every room that I walk into and yet I can have one of the deepest darkest, inappropriate senses of humor ever to the point where people around me look at me go "Are you okay?"

Dawn Taylor

That is awesome. You know I'm the same so I’m like this, and one last one which is always a fun recommendation for people and I've had, actually, people buy these crazy things off of this. What is one thing you spend a silly amount of money on in my life?

Dallas Sleeman

One thing I spend a silly amount of money on in my life. you know, being I am a financial coach, I feel like I’ve narrowed down pretty much all of the silly spending down, I still have a very joyful life but the one expense I do not skip on is skin care because I am going to be in this skin for the rest of my life and I want to have a really full, exciting, adventurous life but I don’t want it to show on my face. 

Dawn Taylor

Hanging on to my youth!

Dallas Sleeman

Hundred percent.

Dawn Taylor

Do you have a skin care you recommend?

Dallas Sleeman

I use Rodan + Fields. 

Dawn Taylor 

Oh, okay, cool.

Dallas Sleeman

I really love it. I’ve tried so many other ones and, uh, I love the fact that I’m almost 40 and I'm fighting wrinkles and acne at the same time like "Thank you, universe." Giving you the middle finger. 

Dawn Taylor 

Oh, I woke up this morning with this massive zit under my eye and I was like "How is that even a thing? I'm almost 43! Come on!"

Dallas Sleeman

And so, I have found a skin care line that helps control the wrinkles and the acne and man, do I love it, so yeah.

Dawn Taylor

I love it. So, Dallas, thank you so, so, so much for being here, and for listeners, I hope that you heard something today that hit home, that shifted something in you, proved you're not alone, that you learned something, or you just laughed at how ridiculous we are. 

Dallas Sleeman

Love it. Thank you so much, Dawn, for having me.

Dawn Taylor 

Aw, you’re welcome. Join us again in two weeks for another super amazing topic and please tell your friends. The more people that feel understood, the better. Check out the show notes located at thetaylorway.ca for more information and the contact information for Dallas. subscribe now on Apple, Spotify and wherever you listen to your podcast, and if you love the show, it would mean the world to me if you'd leave a rating or review. See you guys soon!

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