Dawn Taylor|14/08/2023

Transcript

Dawn Taylor

I am your host, Dawn Taylor, and today we're talking to the amazing Tim Barch. Today's topic is a deep one. So here is the trigger warning for all of you yet I challenge you to listen to it no matter what, because a lot of people around here are dealing with this. And yeah, I promise you'll get through it. But, today's topic is the death of a child from a dad's perspective. Before we get started, I do want to tell you a little bit about our guest so you can be as excited as I am today, but also know how to support him. So, my guest is my cousin Tim. My cousin. Oh, man, as a kid, worshipped the ground this kid walked on. This guy walked on. He has always been one of my absolute favorite relatives, my favorite family members. And I'm honored to say that we have maintained a friendship and a relationship into our elderly years. No, I say it's like we're so old, but we have. He is a worship pastor, he's a dad, he's a husband, he's an incredible musician. He's all the things. He also has a heart for helping other parents. So I just want to say welcome to the show, Tim.

Tim Bartsch

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

Dawn Taylor

So, we talked about this a while ago. You had asked, you're like, "I think I want to tell my daughter's story." And I was like, "Yes, we need to do this." So I'm going to let you take this where you want this to go. So let's start at the beginning. Tell us about Amelia.

Tim Bartsch

Sure. Well, just newly married and, um, my wife found out she's pregnant, and it's exciting. And two months in, baby's growing. This is great. My wife was on some blood pressure medication. No big deal, so the doctor said. And then a couple of months keep going or roll on, and we hit the 26-week point and we're seeing the specialist. And I was there. I happened to be there with my wife that day. Her name is Janine and the doctor said, "Your baby has to come out now." And we were like, "Okay, it's getting real." So, I go home to grab some stuff. They scheduled a C-section for 06:00 a.m. the next morning, and this was like three, four in the afternoon. And, anyway, I don't even know if they told us 06:00 a.m., but it was something like that. And then I drive over that morning. I wasn't even allowed in there. They had a glass window where I could see people running around with the kid. Wow. I guess I should say they injected some steroids into Janine's for the baby because at that age, it increases the chances of survival. But, also we had the stat that at 26 weeks, viability of a child is between 70 and 80%. So nearly every child lives anyway. So we're like, "Cool. All right, we're good."

Dawn Taylor

Baby's coming early, but we're okay.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. And we knew it would be months in the NICU and w weren't sure what that would look like. But you deal with it, right? Because it's your kid. So anyway, I got there in the morning, put on the robe thing and all that stuff. Got to see Janine after the operation and just kind of sat there. Right. And you get to stay in the neonate intensive care unit, well, actually, you don't get to. The child does, but we had a space, and we're just kind of moving on, dealing with things. In-laws are in town buying stuff. We're going out for dinner. Just figuring moving on. Right?

Dawn Taylor

Regular day.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. And day two rolls around. I think I got in on like, day one and a half, give or take. Sometime on the second day, whatever. And she's little. You could put my wife's wedding ring and she's a size four on her finger. You could put that around Amelia's wrist.

Dawn Taylor

Wow.

Tim Bartsch

So, she was less she was just around a pound. Just over a pound. And then, of course, there are other parts of the story, but leading up to day two, a nurse comes in and she had a different face on. She said "It doesn't look good. We don't know what's wrong." And she was presenting like an infection. Her skin was getting redder, looking sick. And then I went in again, and I think that's when Janine and I finally went into, because she was having a cesarean. You can't move. You're in a wheelchair. You're cut open. You got stitches inside you and outside you. And it's really not - you sit up and you faint. It's not easy, and I didn't get the cesarean, obviously. So you'd have to ask Janine how much worse it was than I'm describing. But, we go in and we get to look at her and stuff. And at that point, they said "it doesn't look good, we'll see." Doesn't look good. And, kind of looking at her, I think, you know what? I might be remembering some of this wrong, but I think that was when we did a video call with my brother-in-law, who was in Thailand at the time, and he was the only one who saw Amelia alive apart from Janine and myself.

Dawn Taylor

Wow.

Tim Bartsch

So it's kind of cool, kind of sad because the older siblings didn't get a chance. But anyway, at that point, it may have actually been then maybe a second visit we had. And they said, we don't know. She's getting worse. And essentially, then now you have a choice to make. We can treat her with something, and it might help, but it will burn inside her body. Or, you can let her go, and either way, she may die. Well, obviously pull the plug. She's going to die. But anyway, we were just like, "No, we're not going to burn our daughter."

Dawn Taylor

Okay, so pause there for a second.

Tim Bartsch

Sure.

Dawn Taylor

So, as a parent, you've been told, and this is literally over a matter of days, you've been told, like, 70% to 80% chance of survival. So you're, like, plan in the future and how this is going to look, and probably like, "Oh, I'm going to need more time off work." Spend a lot of time in NICU. That's one complete thought process to oh, hey, here's two of the most horrific decisions in the world. Oh, and by the way, you have to choose one.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. You can torture your kid and she might die, or you can pull the plug and she's going to die, Like, pain or death.

Dawn Taylor

Like, but that is the most brutal decision.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah, it was harsh, you know? You know, in the in the middle of it, too. It's like, "Well, if I pull the plug, am I killing my daughter?" That question you ask and and, you know, growing up in a family that is devout, you know, church-going folks, it's like, "What are the theological ramifications of pulling the plug?" But really, though, that's when the rubber actually hits the road. It's kind of like asking, what would you do if you were, like, whatever conviction you hold? What would you do if it was challenged at the most fundamental level? And I'm like, "Well, I can't tell you that because I haven't been there, and even how can you ask that question?" You don't know. You can never know until you're there.

Dawn Taylor

You don't know until tell you're in the middle of it.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. Even when you've made up my mind. Even when you've made up your mind. Good luck, buddy. So, anyway, all that to say, it didn't take long for us to realize that we had to let her go. And it was kind of cool, but one of the nurses who was in there who was caring for us, she just said, "Thank you." Something like that. "What a brave choice you've made." Wow. Because this nurse, I'm sure, has walked with many parents who are like, "Keep the child alive." And you're like, "Yeah, but, like, for who? How are you the best parent?" And I'm like, "Oh, man, I got to let her go, and I really don't want to, and I got to let her go." So, we did, and we got to be there when they they pulled out the breathing tube, and it was kind of cool. It was like, whatever it was, she lifted up her hand and then it fell and then she died. And it was beautiful.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah. How many days was that?

Tim Bartsch

Her birthday is the 4th of September and she was gone on the 7th, 2013.

Dawn Taylor

Just a few precious days on this earth.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

Let's talk about this from a dad's perspective.

Tim Bartsch

Sure.

Dawn Taylor

So, from a mum's perspective, right. Your body has all the hormonal changes going on. You've just given birth. You've also bonded in a completely different way to this child for those 26 weeks. Right? It's so different. But let's talk about it from a dad's perspective. How is that for you?

Tim Bartsch

Well, you know, yeah. You're sitting there and the mom is crying and crying and crying and crying and I have tears too, of course, but I know I can't feel any of that stuff. I wasn't cut open, the baby didn't get pulled out of me, and I'm thankful to have been able to be in the room when they did a Caesarean on our child Eiley, who's now seven. And it was awesome. That can be another podcast, a C-section from a dad's perspective. But having her, the months and months, it wasn't not just the day after, but the time after, watching her grieve just shredded me. And, yeah.

Dawn Taylor

We talked earlier, we're both crying. Get us being hot messes. This is a tough one. Was it also from a man's perspective of needing to be the rock and needing to be the support and needing to be the strong person? At any point in there did you feel almost forgotten?

Tim Bartsch

It's a good question. It's interesting. So maybe we can come back to this one. How, when you're grieving, people are usually there for you for a couple days, maybe even a week. And then nothing happened because there's a hockey game or there's, your family members have kids who have sports or whatever. People got to go home because they got jobs. But in that time, I felt bad because I wanted to be able to identify more, I think, with what Janine was going through. But I also recognized that I had grief as well. And I needed to be able, I had to visit whatever place I had to go as I grieved. Otherwise, I would carry it with me. So, to answer your question, actually, about being left out. Yes, of course. I did a little bit. Because it's the baby of the mother.

Dawn Taylor

Oh, interesting wording, but yeah. Makes sense.

Tim Bartsch

But at the same time, I know that's not the case. I was fortunate to have people that I could talk to, including, we had a therapist that we that Janine and I visited, so good. And honestly, I mean, I gotta put it out there that not just my family is devout. I'm a firm believer that God is with me. All the time, and the comfort that, you know, I suppose people of any faith can identify with this, but let me say that Jesus Christ is Lord, and He walked us through it, and you can't do it without Him, so forget it. And I know that comes across as bigoted, even from some people's perspective, and so be it. Let's talk, because I'm not here to talk about what I am against. I have so much thanks for, you would say, strength when you shouldn't have it.

Dawn Taylor

That right there.

Tim Bartsch

There's enough understanding to make it for the next ten minutes. You don't have to have a whole day. You don't have to make it through the day. Take a deep breath and you'll make it through the next couple of seconds. And then you get to take another breath.

Dawn Taylor

You know, I think I said this before on the podcast, but I remember when our grandpa got cancer and he wasn't doing well. And, Grandma had talked to me often because of having a husband who had almost died so many times and having dealt with so many health issues myself. We'd have these weird little, like, back hallway of their house conversations, the exact spot by the bathroom and the waiter where we stand. And she'd like, whisper questions to me about how I had dealt with it and how I'd coped with it. And at one point, I said to her, I was like, "Grandma, some days you're like, 'I'm killing it one day at a time. I can make it one whole day.'" And I said, "Sometimes you're like, 'no, I might make it to lunch.'" And I said, "But Grandma, there's literally times where you count to 60, take a deep breath, grateful you survived, and then you start again right back back at one, because you're like, 'okay, I think I can make 60 more seconds.'" And at Grandpa's funeral, she came over and gave me a hug and just started counting quietly in my ear. And I just laughed and just hugged her. I was like, "There we go, Grandma."

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. Someone said it might have even been some famous author said what saves a man is to take a step and then another. For all the dads out there, it's like, obviously you can't feel those feelings, but who are you? You're right there. Okay? If you're with the mother her, you're beside her. And if you're not, you just lost a kid and feel the feelings, you have to talk to someone. And even if you if you can talk to somebody who's gone through it, because that was one of the best things was as soon as I shared about the death of Amelia, I had Moms and Dads coming out of the woodwork saying, "We had the same thing happen to us." And I was like. "Okay. I got a bunch of friends." And it's like an instant fundamental connection you make with people you've never met. In one case, it was the grandmother of one of my music students, and she just very quietly said named her child that she lost and says he would have been 27 today or something, or he would have been 27 years old or something like that. It was just like, "Wow." That's why we got to talk about it. Because I live in Calgary, so there was a particular Calgary Flames player. Oh, no, and I'm going to forget his name on the air. That's awesome. I'll remember it in about 45 minutes. But they lost a child right around the same time. And I was like, "Man, I got to talk to him." But it was so interesting. I knew what he was going through. And I'm like, "dude, I got your back. You don't know me, and I'll never see you again or see you ever. But I got your back. Bye."

Dawn Taylor

Interesting club that you're part of that you don't want to be part of.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

Welcome to the club that I wish you weren't in.

Tim Bartsch

And what if we could just share that grief, though, man? What kind of idiots are we when we build a silo around us because we're going through this trouble? There's all kinds of reasons, but you got to open it up.

Dawn Taylor

But you do. So moving forward after I remember going to her funeral.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

And it was so brutal, but so beautiful.

Tim Bartsch

I wrote a piece of music. It was between the day of her death and the day of the funeral. I had it handwritten. Oh, wait. Yeah, I did. And it took me about a day. Who knows? But, still got the piece of music.

Dawn Taylor

It's amazing, right? I mean, no child funeral, no funeral is good, but you know, when you're like at a grandparents' funeral, you're like, "They lived a good life, we'll miss them and it's devastating." But you're good. But a child, you're like, "They didn't even get a chance. I know this come across no, I know this is going to come across as I don't know what, so just bear with me. But do you feel like it wasn't taken as serious because she was premature and one pound versus has she passed away at full term or at a later date?

Tim Bartsch

No, it's funny. I know. It's like, how do you write a three day obituary? "She lived three days, she died." Here we are with the gallous humor. I love it.

Dawn Taylor

The dark sense of humor. Our family is known for this. Yeah, we are.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. Not really, because people yeah, the only thing that sometimes creeps in is when people are meaning well and down years later. Oh, well, you had another child, so I guess it's okay, periodically. But most people aren't that stupid anymore. Stupid might be the wrong word, maybe.

Dawn Taylor

No, we're using it. It's okay.

Tim Bartsch

It's like you should know better when someone's grieving. So all you folks out there who have friends who are going through grief, just sit with them.

Dawn Taylor

Okay, I want you to define that because people don't actually understand what that actually means.

Tim Barton

Isn't there an acronym - STFU? It means don't talk. It's interesting. I told a guy who lost he was friends, very good friends with a man who lost his wife suddenly wife of like 40 years or something like this just this past fall. And I just said if I could give you one word of advice and I don't mean to give you advice, but don't say anything. Just sit with them. No. And if you talk, just talk about stuff. And stuff means not related to anything that they're going through because they'll bring it up on their terms, and then you get to walk with them because you might not be the person they need to tell about how they're really feeling, but your presence with them shows them, and maybe they will share. I didn't have many like that, except I had people who asked me, "How can I help?" And I just said, "Just be around." And they were, fortunately not those types who say, "Oh, you got to stay strong, or it's so great how you're handling this." I'm like, "You don't know."

Dawn Taylor

You have no idea what's going on.

Tim Bartsch

And it wasn't in a mean way. It's like, I don't know, you idiot. It's more like my kid just died. It sucks. Come on, for real. Just hang out. We're okay. Maybe you could go get me some broccoli or something because I need to make a stir fry.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah.

Tim Bartsch

Anyway, we actually felt really supported by a lot of people, just such a wide variety of folks. They even brought food, even though my wife is a Celiac. So, unfortunately, if you're reading this or hearing this and you brought food, we didn't really eat it because my wife couldn't eat anything you brought. So I love the intention, and the care. Yeah. So that's all right. But that's another fun story. The third podcast.

Dawn Taylor

Right? It's so true. So moving through that grief now, let's talk about a couple of years later. Janine's pregnant again.

Tim Bartsch

Mm-hmm. You know what? Can I back up just a little bit? Yeah, we'll come back to that one for sure shortly. Let's see here. Was it even a year? It wasn't. February.

Dawn Taylor

I know where you're going. And I was like, "I'm going to let you bring this up if you want to. I'm not going to go there."

Tim Bartsch

Yeah, I think it's pretty cool because I referred to my faith, and I'm not saying everything happens for a reason. That's a really stupid thing to say, I think. But, every circumstance in your life can be redeemed, can be turned into an opportunity to bring healing and wholeness to yourself and to others. And, shortly after the death of my daughter, my brother's wife had a child who lived for nine days, and then she died from something. Later, they discovered that there was no way she was getting out of that one either. And I could walk with him and oh, man, talk about the best thing that could have happened out of the worst thing that happened, and we have that bond that gets irreplaceable, and you can't break that. And so we walked through it, and we still periodically just kind of were the two dads who lost kids. Yeah, just look back. Look back at it and, yeah, it's pretty cool. How do you say it's pretty cool? But I think anybody who's gone through anything terrible who has let themselves experience the healing that you can experience

Dawn Taylor

Okay, say that again.

Tim Bartsch

So anyone who is willing to-

Dawn Taylor

Anyone who's gone through a horrible experience-

Tim Bartsch

- who has let themselves be healed from it, it takes time. Who has let themselves be healed from it, can turn that terror into something life-changing for yourself and also for people around you, because it changes, well, I know enough that it changes your biology, not just your thinking, but actually physically changes you. But it also, well, it changed a lot of things for me, but anyway, it allows you to become, to be an agent of healing for others, at least to give them the choice to make steps toward it. You can't heal anyone. You can point them in the direction you can nudge, and you can be a powerful ally and, yeah, just try it.

Dawn Taylor

Seriously. So you said it changed a lot for you, and then we're going to get back to the other question, but what did it all change for you?

Tim Bartsch

Well, I've been a music teacher since I was 15, and I'm 47, so do the math.

Dawn Taylor

So like four or five years?

Tim Bartsch

Yeah, give or take.

Dawn Taylor

I'm that old, by the way.

Tim Bartsch

I don't know. I'm ageless, tell you.

Dawn Taylor

You are ageless. So, it changed how I treat people, and it changed suddenly, I've always liked kids. I have a lot of fun being a music teacher, among other things that I do. But now they were someone's kid. It wasn't just these kids, it was that parent's child. Whether they have a good relationship with that kid or not, that person's treasure. And, so I'm not just teaching a kid music. It was so interesting. I heard myself say the words. It's like, "I'm not just teaching these children music. I'm helping them to become just good people." And it changes the level of patience you have. It changes how you how you show, like, it's, I guess, discipline. Or, like, how you treat kids who are misbehaving. You still have to call them on it and you have to provide discipline. But, the words you use and the actions you take change or it caused me to change and certainly reconsider the well-worn pathways, the habits of either you've seen it done this way or it was done this way to you, or you think it's a good idea, whatever it is. Now, something in your life has changed or challenged how you think. Yeah. And it did, and I'm so glad. That was one of the first things I noticed, actually, because-

Dawn Taylor

Big fundamental changes.

Tim Bartsch

I had one week off and I was back to teaching. Imagine that, put your death of your daughter in a little box and go to work. But hey, that's also part of moving on is imagine that life moves on.

Dawn Taylor

It's so true. It's so true that it does. So let's backtrack. And that was a crazy year, by the way. That was suchan interesting, from when my mom passed away to your daughter, to your brother's daughter. It just felt like it was just like compiled death. It was just wild in our family. It was a very heavy, heavy time for, I mean, mostly you guys, but for everyone, right? Like it was just not okay.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

So now let's go to a couple of years later, Janine gets pregnant again.

Tim Bartsch

Well, it's funny because on one level, of course you're worried about, well, is it going to happen again? Yeah, of course you're going to worry about that. If any trauma you've ever had, if it happened in a place, every time you pass that place.

Dawn Taylor

100%. .

Tim Bartsch

Every time I drive by the hospital, I don't often, but I would have work up there and I'm like, oh yeah, I was up on the 10th floor or whatever. And I remember walking the twelve flights of stairs, running up the stairs to the, to where Janine was, because the elevators I was like, I'm not going to get in the elevator any faster. So, interestingly enough. So the specialists who said she's got to come out now gave Janine her personal phone number,, and she was a nephrologist by trade. So it's a kidney, folks. Kidney doctor who happens to be a celiac, I think, or has Crohn's or something like that. And so immediately, they had that connection. They knew that some of that, there are tendencies. Well, if you have I guess I didn't say the high blood pressure was preeclampsia in my wife. And so knowing that now we had a whole pile of doctors that were like, we're bringing this one in.

Dawn Taylor

You're treated very different.

Tim Bartsch

Oh, yeah. And all that to say to the doctor who didn't know the first time, I have not - like, you know, I can imagine where people would go with that, because it's a she was a relatively new doctor, and I actually told somebody last night. It's like, "I hope if if she ever thinks about it or even heard that we lost this girl, I hope she now knows that the importance of knowing someone's history, just medical history, a lesson learned." I can't blame her. I don't know if you were headed that way.

Dawn Taylor

No, but sadly, doctors are humans, too.

Tim Bartsch

If only they could know everything about us. Right?

Dawn Taylor

Right.

Tim Bartsch

So, anyway, like you were saying, we had a pile of specialists, but it is stressful. 1.6s And of course, she was a little bit early, but not really. And I got to watch the C section. Like I said, that's a whole other podcast. Some people are like, "Oh, that's so disgusting. I was like, this is awesome." And the nurse is like, "You have to stand behind this curtain, and you cannot get out of your seat." I was like, "You're kidding me."

Dawn Taylor

"Watch me."

Tim Bartsch

Well, I did stand up at one point, and that's where I'll leave it. But if anyone wants to know, it was pretty great. Yes. Anyway, so she was born and she was fine, and she's a wild seven year old full of beans, and I'd have it no other way.

Dawn Taylor

Did it take you? So you have two older kids as well. I mean, both of them are graduated now.

Tim Bartsch

Yes, my son graduated this year

Dawn Taylor

Wild, right? So. Did you knowing how you bonded with your first two amazing kids, then you have number three, and you deal with the death of this child, and now you have number four. Was it a different bonding experience? Did it take longer to connect? Was there any of that stuff with it?

Tim Bartsch

No, not really. I don't think so. It was it it was being a lot older, having a little kid.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah.

Tim Bartsch

So the age difference, maybe that means we have less energy, but honestly, I don't know. I think when you need something, unless there's something else wrong, your body can provide it. At some fundamental level, you have enough. 1And I remember walking, I'll stand up here a little bit, walking through the hall with my elbows out, because she was long enough or short enough to fit in between, especially the late nights. And that way, when I bumped into the wall, because I did, it wouldn't be her head hitting the wall and stuff. And I think I think parents can identify with that, parents of any age. But no, there's no difference bonding. And what was awesome was particularly my son, he's been., because my daughter's now out of the house, too, so she was a little older, of course, but he really bonded a lot with her, with the, Eilee is her name. And they have a pretty special relationship, and we've yeah, I appreciate that.

Dawn Taylor

That's awesome. So what is it you do to remember her? What are some things that you guys have done, incorporated into your family to remember her?

Tim Bartsch

Well, we've had birthday parties every year where we'll make a cake. That's one thing we do, that's good to remember. I think it's important to recognize that different people need different things for anyone who has experienced the loss. Don't think about what other people will think about how you remember. You know, you can let time make that choice for you in terms of how you respond to your own grief. People don't need to tell you how to grieve. For us, we have the birthday party that we do, and I think, yeah, usually it's like some little cake or something. Anyway, the first few years we went on little bit of a time away, maybe a dinner out, stuff like that, too. Just Janine and myself, but that's about it. However, we had Amelia cremated, and we have a little urn that sat in the same spot right beside her little the hospital put together, like, a box thing and a little shadow box frame with a picture of her and her little footprints and some cute stuff. So there's a little section on the dresser. Every now and then, I'll just go to that little urn and I'll put my finger on it and just talk to her a little bit.

Dawn Taylor

It's awesome.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

I love what you said about how it's not the same. It's not the same for anyone. Grief is the same for anyone, and how they deal with it, how they process it, what they need to do after. I know for myself, I looked at so, for example, when my mom died. I looked at, okay, what was a character trait of her that I want incorporate into my life and make more of a focus in my life? And I did that also with Grandma, Grandpa, and things like that. That's one of the ways I've grieved. Right. But I don't have photos of them up anywhere, right? Yeah. And I have little things around my house that make me think of them. Like I have grandpa's fingers. I don't know if you've ever known this, but this finger is Grandpa's finger. My pointer finger is literally Grandpa's finger. The same twist, the same curve. And every time I look down, I'm like, freaking ugly finger. Reminds me of Grandpa, right?. And I remember being a little girl, comparing fingers with Grandpa, and I always laugh. I'm like, Man, I should tell the rest of the family that one day, like, if you ever miss Grandpa, just look at my finger. It'll catch you off guard. It's funny.

Tim Bartsch

You know that volcanic glass that sat on top of Grandpa grandma's piano? Yeah. I've got a piece of that.

Dawn Taylor

Oh, so cool.

Tim Bartsch

I won't trade that for, like, a million bucks. It's like, I see it and I'm like, There they are. It's pretty cool.

Dawn Taylor

Totally. Right? And so for me, I go back to my mom's grave often. Like, every time I go through, I go and I stop and I see her and Grandma, Grandpa, and I have a moment, and I bring flowers, and that's something that's very precious to me. But my siblings, like, I think they only go if I go and they happen to come with me. That's just not something that means anything to them or that they need as part of their grief, right?

Tim Bartsch

Yeah, I know. My brother does graveside visits, too, for his daughter. Yeah, it's true. Some people plant things, some people have little areas of their yard.

Dawn Taylor

Everyone has a thing.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

You know, my challenge to anyone listening to this, this dealing with grief, has or, honestly, we all will at some point in our lives, right? It's like one of the guarantees in life is death, sad to say, but it's true, is find the thing that comforts you and works for you. No matter what anyone else says, no matter what they judge, no matter what their thoughts are on it, or it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What is your thing, right? Like, as long as it's not harming you or harming anyone around you. What is that way of remembering?

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. And I think, too, let time be your ally. And I really don't think that's profound. I guess it can be if you look back and realize but time is one of your allies. Because, then you can feel. You don't have to feel everything on the first day, and you can't and you won't. But, it helps you realize that maybe some of the things you were doing in the middle of the grief at first were toxic, whatever it is, and it could actually have been a good thing you were doing that actually wasn't good for you, necessarily.

Dawn Taylor

Can you give us an example of that?

Tim Bartsch

Let's try. I'll try to see if there's something in even in my own

Dawn Taylor

Sorry, I put you on the spot.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah, cause I oh, boy. Something so okay, well, I didn't do this. If you, say, pretend I went on a walk every day at a certain time just to remember my daughter. And I did it for a whole year. And then I realized that those walks there's sometimes a varying length, but then there's other people in my life, and a year later I'm realizing, hold on, I have this wife beside me who's grieving too, and. And I can't remember the last time I talked to her about how she's doing, but I've had my me time for a whole year, so it's a very important thing to do. But it's hold on a minute. I need to see if I can find a different way or bring her along on those walks or whatever it is.

Dawn Taylor

Is this still serving me now in the way it was then?

Tim Bartsch

Yes. And I think that's that when you're with someone who's grieving, I think they need, so the grieving person needs some time. Just like if you cut yourself, say, the comedy when you cut your neck and it's going, yeah. When you're going through the trauma, that's what's happening. And people kind of got to let you be for a second, but then after a little while, it's okay to jump in and say, "Let's talk about that blood that's leaking out of your neck." Because, if we let it keep going, you might be in some trouble.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah.

Tim Bartsch

And I think that really does have a practical application when it comes to this type of thing. So as a dad, it's like one of the things you got to remember, and I had this and I had a good laugh with my brother. I think he did forget one day, like the anniversary of the death or something. And I'm like, dude, I forget, I'll go a month, and I won't have even thought of my daughter. And I'm like, "Am I a jerk? And no, I'm not." I'm the father of a daughter who passed away, for crying out loud, so leave me alone. But it's like, what you can do, though, with that is, hold on, I haven't thought of her. Now, let me see who else is in her life or was. And let me let that trigger something in you instead of we use trigger most often in a negative way that it triggers something that leads us to a negative behavior or feelings that we tend to dwell on. Well, can't certain actions and activities trigger positive behavior?

Dawn Taylor

100% they can.

Tim Bartsch

And so let those times of forgetting go, "Oh, wait, I should ask my wife or my kids, whoever it is that was involved directly or even indirectly." it's like, "Hey, how are you doing with this?" And you have that shared experience, so why not share it now? There you go.

Dawn Taylor

I love that. I love that so much. Tim, is there anything else? You have been so amazingly just open and vulnerable today in talking about this and how it's all gone down. Is there anything else that you would like to say to someone listening or if someone is to share this with someone to be like, hey, you need to listen to this? Anything you'd like to say to them right now? Either from a support perspective of my family member or my friend or my person going through this, or the person going through it, is there anything else you'd like to add?

Tim Bartsch

Well, just to double back on, let time pass, you know? And one of the best things you can do is just set a reminder in your calendar, like the day of the anniversary of the death or just on special days or whatever routine it is. So, this is for people who are supporting the one who's grieving find a support routine and give it and do it for at least a year. After that year of support routine, you could even reevaluate with the person who's grieving. You could say, "I've been walking with you for this year. How can I help? Is there anything you need? Do you want me to call you once a month? What would you like? What do you need?" And if they say nothing and call them once a month. So, that leads me to the other thing is most of the time, people who are grieving aren't in any place to actually make practical choices.

Dawn Taylor

No.

Tim Bartsch

So, taking previous advice, I said, don't talk about the death, but find a way to just give them something that, you know, they might need. Maybe it's a text. Once a week. Hey, what's up? You don't even have to say anything. All you're doing is you're being there. And for the person who's grieving, you need people. Feelings are meant to be, well, first of all, felt. But you can't, okay, if you break your leg so that it's like an L. You can't walk on it. 1Somebody needs to share that burden with you and feel your feelings because you have to and share them because you have to. And if you want to carry the memory of your loss in the best possible way, share it with someone, because you will forget. And time as much of an ally as it is, it also is a thief. You will lose days. You will lose memories. It's science. Whatever you want to call it. But if you share it with someone, you've just multiplied the memory of that person.

Dawn Taylor

That's beautiful.

Tim Bartsch

Yeah. So let's leave it at that. If anyone wants to talk ever, I'm sure my contact info is in there at some point. Let's talk, let's share.

Dawn Taylor

I love that. Thank you so much, Tim. Thank you for being on the show today. For people listening, we are going to include Tim's contact information, how to get a hold of him, how to find him, how to stalk him. I mean, not stalk him, just find him to talk to him in the show notes. So thank you, thank you, thank you for hanging out with us. I hope that something you heard today hit home or just allowed you to see grief in a different way or lower some of your judgments on the people around you who might have to make decisions that you don't always 100% agree with. Because when you're in the middle of it, you never know. You never know what decision you're going to make and how you're going to make it. Join us again in two weeks for another amazing topic. Please tell your friends, share this with people, because the more people that feel understood and seen, the better. Check out the Show notes located at TheTaylorWay.ca, for more information and all of Tim's contact information, and subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. And if you love the show, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a rating and review. See you guys later.