Dawn Taylor| 07/09/2023

Transcript

Dawn Taylor

Hey, hey. It is me, your podcast host, Dawn Taylor. And today we don't have an amazing floating head this week. We've had a few floating heads, anonymous guests lately, but today we have Chris Boyle. We, guys, you need to know this guy. He is such an amazing guy. So, we're going to be dealing with the topic of - is single parenting from a dad's perspective, the lack of support in this lovely country of ours, and probably globally for that, but also like the guilt and entrepreneurship and divorce and separation and all of the aspects of that that go into it. But from a dad's perspective, instead of a mom's. So who is Chris? Chris is the founder and CEO of Legacy Financial Group. He is the business owner tax saver. He's been in the industry for over 16 years. He is a dad of three amazing little girls. I met one of them, and she is just the cutest little thing you've ever seen. He's a massive sports fan, loves to cook, and is just a huge supporter of business owners in general roles. So if you want to find him, go check out our show notes. You know that. But let's dive in. Welcome to the show, Chris.

Chris Boyle

Thank you very much for having me, Dawn.

Dawn Taylor

You're welcome. So we were talking one day about being a dad, being a business owner and also being a single parent of three kids, three beautiful little girls, and everything that goes into that. So, where do you want to start? Tell us your story.

Chris Boyle

Yeah, well, I won't go back too far, but I ended up in Edmonton about 2005. I did play high level sports, and that's how I ended up here in the city on scholarship and, as going through my schooling. I actually started in my industry, in the finance industry before I finished schooling and eventually met a girl here in the city and stayed, I'm from southern Alberta, and had a family. And like a lot of people, you learn a lot about yourself and relationships through potentially a long courting period or dating period or marriage period with your significant other, and we had just realized that it didn't make sense anymore, and so we decided to separate and eventually divorce and through our marriage, we had three amazing young girls, beautiful girls and what some of the challenges were, obviously, is you're dealing with this internal aspect of "am I happy? Is it my marriage that's not causing me happy? Is it external forces that are not causing me happy? Is it stuff I'm not doing that's reducing my happiness? Or not there?" And ultimately, if you're not on the same page and not really willing to figure that out, usually it ends in divorce or separation. And that's kind of what happened, and what I wasn't prepared for was the aftermath of that and how that affected both business, parenting scheduling, which is, can be a nightmare at times, trying to coordinate everything.

Dawn Taylor

They're not even teenagers yet.

Chris Boyle

No, they're in extracurricular activities, but not to the point of how crazy I know it can be. So that's a brief, I guess, quick history on where we are.

Dawn Taylor

So, let's dive into that. So, in Canada. Canada right now, this is an article I found from 2018. So, I mean, this is a long time ago. There are 330,000 Canadian families that are headed by single dads with one or more kids under the age of 25, and in 2022, 1.84 million single-parent families. Those are some pretty high numbers and I know one of the things we originally talked about was there's no support and there really isn't a lot of support. So, with your divorce, what is your separation in regards to custody?

Chris Boyle

Yeah. So we're 50-50, and I'll say this, I do have a great co-parenting relationship with my ex.

Dawn Taylor

You do.

Chris Boyle

And our communication regarding the kids is I couldn't have asked for a better situation post-divorce. The challenge really is, and you kind of alluded to it, is that guilt factor, though. And some of that has been portrayed to me from my ex and we've communicated about it, but also my kids. Like, during COVID I was able, because of the flexibility of my job, not work a ton. And so when I was with them, I was with them, and we did stuff together, activities together. It didn't matter if it was Monday at 11:00 a.m. Or if it was Friday at 06:00 p.m.. When I was with them, I was as present as I could be and part of that was that guilt, and what happened was my business suffered, right? Over that year and a half time frame. But I know some of the connections that I built with my girls, I'll forever have that where other people during that time, whether they were in my situation or not, they were gone, and the kids were always around. So, there's pros and cons, I guess, to that. But the big challenge I had was, there was this expectation I felt that was on me when I had my girls. That was my sole purpose and if I was asking for help outside of what I could do, I was either failing them or I was failing other people who expected me to be there all the time.

Dawn Taylor

And let's unpack that for a sec. Who was putting the expectations on you? And do you think that they're different on a man than they are on a woman? Let's just get all controversial all up in here this morning.

Chris Boyle

So, yeah, there's a lot there. I guess the expectations put on me. Some of it was myself because I knew I had the flexibility with my job, but a lot of it was projected from my ex-wife. Now, her and I have had communication and talks about this, but it probably wasn't until at least after a year where I was really starting to be able to dissect what was going on, how I was feeling, and how to try to communicate that back and in a constructive way, I guess would be the best way. Because I know from her end too, she's dealing with some of the same challenges, too, and there's some of that guilt when they're gone from her. She wants to make sure that they're looked after, and she trusts me. There's no issue there but when you've got three young girls and when we first divorced, they were six, four and two.

Dawn Taylor

Oh, just little.

Chris Boyle

Yeah. And so anyone that's been around a two year old and a four year old knows there needs to be pretty constant supervision.

Dawn Taylor

Yes.

Chris Boyle

Or you get situations where they think the white walls are a chalkboard, right?

Dawn Taylor

Yeah.

Chris Boyle

So, I can understand it from that fact, but yeah, there was a lot of pressure I was putting on myself. There was a lot of pressure that was being put on me from outside parties. And it was just really trying to figure out everything on how I was feeling, how to deal with it, how to even communicate with the girls in certain situations. Here's what dad needs from you. So we got creative at times, but it's tough. And ultimately, I'm in a situation where I did have to pay alimony or am paying alimony support and child support and so you still have financial obligations almost more than ever now, because you're almost trying to fund two households, and you've got that pressure and you've got the pressure of trying to co parent three young girls. And, yeah, it's overwhelming. And from our country's standpoint, you're right. I don't think there's enough support from provincial or federal governments, but I don't even know how or if there's tax breaks they could come up with or something like that. But, compound that with our rising inflation costs, compound that with the mental challenge that COVID was, the social challenge. Right? It was tough.

Dawn Taylor

So, do you think even though more than tax breaks? More than that. So, my sister and her husband adopted four kids, and my brother-in-law was a stay at home parent because of their careers. It made way more sense for my sister to work she was a nurse than for him. And I know for him, it was like it was all mommy and me groups. Right? So more than even, like, the taxes and more than any of the stuff that the government's doing. Do you think, as a society, there isn't the same man to man peer support when it comes to being a single parent, when it comes to being alone with your kids? So many of the women in my life that are divorced or separated had kids on their own. There's so much support within each other, right? There's always, like, the playdates, and there's the you take the kids this many days a week, and I'll take them this many days a week, or I just need a break, so can you take them for the weekend? And there's such an intense level of support within moms. There's single mom parenting groups and single mom everything. And, like, I remember hearing from my sister that he would struggle with things like that because he'd show up and he was the only guy in a room with, like, 20 moms and their kids, and he was the only man. And it's looked at different, right? Like, you don't ever think about, I was talking to a friend a little while ago. We were driving past this amazing park and I said, "man, what I wouldn't do to just go sit there and hang out." And he's like, "Yeah, you could. No one will call the cops. But if I go sit there, someone's for sure calling the cops." And I was like, that is such a crazy statement. But it's so true, right? There's such bias. There's so many crazy beliefs on that, that as a single man sitting in a park, there's this massive judgment put on it versus a single woman sitting in a park.

Chris Boyle

Yes.

Dawn Taylor

But that's really known, right? Like, that all ties into this, where it's like, what is the gap? What is that gap, that missing piece that's made it so that men raising kids is seen as something so different than a woman raising kids.

Chris Boyle

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

And that support. What are your thoughts? What have you experienced?

Chris Boyle

So, my experience on that is a couple of things. So, one you had mentioned, yes, there's tons of mum groups, mum support groups and stuff like that and they're fantastic, and if you get the right mix of women in those groups, it's so positive and so supportive. I've also talked to mums across the board, whether single or divorced or still together, and there's also times where they find that practice extremely draining because of the judgment that they feel from other women in that group, right? If they're not parenting to the level that somebody else in the group,

Dawn Taylor

100% the competition parenting.

Chris Boyle

Where I have found and I've come across a lot of men that are gone through divorce, have children, or have children and might not be the breadwinner in the family, whether it be through clients or friends. And it's much tougher to get them to open up, to be in that environment but once they're in that environment and this is just from my experience and conversations I've had, yeah, just to back up there, I have found that the bonds are almost stronger with the men who come together in that situation because, guys might not want to admit this is they will bring their walls down if they know other people are in the same situation as them and there's less judgment. And the conversations that I've had, especially I've been fortunate enough to meet with some people who are successful entrepreneurs that went through divorce with children five, six years ago. And those conversations were probably some of the deepest and most heart-pouring conversations I've had with anyone because it's a similar conversation that we're able to have, and similar experience, and at no point have I felt judgy towards somebody else on how they're raising their kid. Each person is their own situation, and it was very eye-opening just to have those types of conversations with people and build those, you know, relationships and to see what might be able to come out of it. I like your analogy about, yeah, if a guy's sitting in a park, there's something wrong with it. Ironically enough, as soon as you said that and just the different roles. And if it's reversed, how much that changes the perspective. I did take my girls to the new Barbie movie a couple nights ago and I had heard some stuff about it, you know, and I was very conscious as I'm watching the show, not just from a pure entertainment value. You know, I was thinking, if the roles were reversed in this movie, and men were playing the role of, you know, Barbie and Barbie was playing the role of Ken, it would have been up in arms on the perspective on how men were treated in that movie be compared to if it was, well, reversed.

Dawn Taylor

Oh, interesting.

Chris Boyle

Right? There would have been massive uproar. But, because it was, if anyone's seen the movie, basically derogatory towards men, which I don't have an issue with, but it's that perspective of the patriarchy. It's the perspective of what does society deem acceptable? And for, if a guy wants to go to a park, why can't he go to a park? He's not doing anything wrong. But it's that perspective of why is a man there alone? As opposed to, "Oh, a woman's there reading a book. How lovely. She must not have kids and want to be around kids type thing."

Dawn Taylor

Well, not only that, but is anyone looking to be like, oh, I wonder which kids are that man's? Right? And it is there's such a stigma around that. It's funny because I hear that from you, I haven't seen the movie, but from you, it's like it's derogatory towards men. And I've heard from women it's like, the most empowering movie they've seen in years. And the minute people said that, I was like, oh, no, I'm very intrigued to watch this, because it feels like we can't ever have, I don't know, maybe this is just my perspective on it. We can't ever have one without the other. Right. Like, either we empower women or we empower men. And it's like, what about empowering both? To empower one doesn't mean we have to emasculate the other.

Chris Boyle

Yeah. And they do try to in the movie, they try at the very end to get a sense of that. But, empowerment, I think, should be for all it doesn't matter. Gender, whatever. But once again, I don't have an issue with the movie. It's a piece of art. Directors, writers, they have their own way of telling the story. But, from especially in today's society, if that movie just would have been reversed, it would have received so much uproar. But, it's perspective and men, you generally, we aren't supposed to be emotional. We aren't supposed to be in that type of role. And if you are, kind of where historically, do people feel less of a man or whatever you want to call it because they're in a role that most men males aren't in? And I think that's crazy. There are women out there and in couple of situations where it makes way more sense based on them being the breadwinners and them to provide and men are great parents, too, right?

Dawn Taylor

So, I love that line right there. Like, men are great parents, too. Before we hopped on here today, I was talking to a friend of mine, and I was like, "Yeah, we're cutting up a couple of podcasts today. I was excited to talk to you guys." And we were talking about that, and he goes, even in my chat groups, it's so often that it's like, "Oh, no, sorry. Can't do that. I have to babysit the kids." And he goes and I get mad and I'll call them out every time and be like, "No, you mean you're parenting your kids?" Like, you're not babysitting your kids. You're parenting your kids. A babysitter is a hired person you bring in from outside, right? And what are your thoughts on that language that we use? And do you think it's derogatory to men in a way?

Chris Boyle

Yeah. So I have been guilty of using that verbiage in the past 100%.

Dawn Taylor

Oh. It's ingrained in our society

Chris Boyle

For me, and this was all part of going through everything that I did with the divorce and separation. How was I viewing certain situations in my relationship? How was I viewing certain interactions with my kids? And one of the things that I realized is that term babysitting, I felt was a derogatory term where, for me, you're telling your brain you're having to do something that you don't want to do.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah.

Chris Boyle

I started replacing it consciously and practicing gratitude. I practiced a lot of gratitude, through COVID especially, and everything else. And now when somebody asks, "Hey, do you want to meet us to go out for dinner?" And if I've got the girls, I'll say, "No, I get to hang out with my girls tonight."

Dawn Taylor

Oh, I like that language better.

Chris Boyle

Right? And our brains are easily tricked, as many people don't want to think they are, and starting to conditioning it and then relating that action with being gracious or having gratitude towards that act. So, I do think it's derogatory and we get caught up in it. But, I've just focused on changing that verbiage and changing how I perceive that act of spending time with my girls. But, I was also extremely gracious knowing that my situation I had the girls. When I'd have the girls, I would be as present as I could with the girls.

Dawn Taylor

Yeah. So what is the balance that you have found being a dad, being with these three beautiful little girls, but also as a business owner and an entrepreneur? It is very different in many ways, right? Because I feel like if you had the quote-unquote job that you had to go to Monday to Friday, nine to five, it would be seen as incredibly different because it would just be an expected thing. Like, of course the kids go to daycare, of course the kids go to a babysitter. Of course that's what happens. And you go to work and that's how you pay the bills. Done. That is this very tangible thing that makes sense to people. But when as a business owner, and you manage your own calendar and you manage your own schedule, and you are very successful, right? But that can take more hours and that can take more time or help you buy back your hours and time, right? And this is something that comes up with a lot of entrepreneurs. It's just because I work from home or just because I manage my own calendar doesn't mean I don't have a job the same as you.

Chris Boyle

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

Right? How have you worked on the balance of that and figuring out like, "No, it's okay. Even the weeks that I have the girls, I still have to work."

Chris Boyle

Yeah. I think the best and shortest answer is I don't have a freaking clue yet. And it's a process. A couple of things. There's some people that have asked me, "Why don't you just hire childcare?" Well, if anyone has ever looked to see how much it would cost for three girls for daycare during the summer months, it's almost two grand a month for full time. It's insane. And based on my income, I don't qualify for any--

Dawn Taylor

Subsidies and stuff.

Chris Boyle

And then on top of that, I've got alimony and spousal support that I'm paying. So there's a time frame until that's done where I have to be creative. During summer, it's been really tough. One of the things I have done is fully relocated my office to my house and essentially created an office in my bedroom because it's the only door I can lock in the entire house. I've been training the girls to know when I'm in the room with the door locked, I'm working. If it's an emergency, you, obviously you can come. So that's one aspect. My youngest, Peyton, she's five, she's going into kindergarten. So that's going to give some reprieve, I guess. Yeah. But she's been in preschool the last two years. And to give you an idea, on a typical day, from September to June, when I've got the girls, you know, we wake up around seven, get ready, pack lunches. I've got the girls actually trained where pack their own lunches with supervision, so they're not putting just straight candy. So, that deals with some of the duties I would have. At 8:30, I drop off the two girls at their school and I drive another 15 minutes, drop Peyton off at nine. And then I have to pick Peyton back up at 11:15, drive back home, usually make her lunch, and then between, depending on the day, 2:30 and three, I pick up the other two girls. So in terms of trying to allocate time towards projects, meetings, it's so chopped up. It's tough, and so what used to do is drop Peyton off, go to the gym for an hour, go to the coffee shop and do emails, some administrative type duties, pick Peyton up, make her lunch, and then if I can even attempt to get, like, a Zoom meeting in, do that and then pick up the girls, and then it's full parenting time. That's just reality right now. And so, really trying to coordinate as many meetings as I can on days I don't have them, and days I do have them focus more on tasks that I can do. With them around, where I know I'm going to get interrupted every 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and just have to work with it. But, I know a lot of other families out there, they're struggling, they're taking on second jobs right now to deal with inflation, rising costs. I know it's a struggle. I'm just fortunate enough where I can at least do it and come home and be around them and not have to be away from them. But, yeah, if I ever find that perfect balance and I can replicate it or have other people replicate it, I won't have to work another day in my life.

Dawn Taylor

Right?

Chris Boyle

A lot of money. But, yeah, it's an ongoing challenge and I don't know, it's trying to find what works for my situation, and it's constantly ongoing.

Dawn Taylor

It's part of that, releasing so many expectations of what we thought life was going to look like, what life should look like, what, it means as a dad, as the caregiver, the provider, the worker, right? There's so much around that business growth. I know that's a struggle, especially as entrepreneurs and I see it all the time with clients, is looking at all the other entrepreneurs around you or the other business owners around you. They're the people in our industries and how fast they're building their business or how, what they're doing, and I don't know if it's ego or just having to really sit back and be like, you know what? I need to give myself some grace right now to know that, “You know what? Maybe this year isn't going to be the year I double business. Maybe this year isn't going to be the year that I land all the biggest contracts and I do all those things.” And that's okay, because this is the year that I spent a lot of time with my kids.

Chris Boyle

Yeah, I think there's some of that. There's some of that, where my mental, I guess, thought process really changed before, and I'll be fully open on this. But before going through my divorce, it was, we have to have that big house, we have to have that nice vehicle, the keeping up with the Joneses thing, right? The materialistic aspects. 

Dawn Taylor

Huge. right? 

Chris Boyle

And I've talked about this, written about this on some of my blogs, talked about with clients. Like, in Canada, we are built to fail in terms of an individual person based on how much marketing has thrown down our throats, how easy it is to get credit and pay 19% interest but for somebody who's got a really good business idea that's driven, for them to get a business loan at 18 or 25 is almost impossible. I think credit card debt to go spending on crap at 18. So, we're constantly inundated by, I need that next shiny toy, or stuff like that. I was guilty of that. That’s something, starting to make good income, and then going through the divorce and realizing. You know, we need money, we need stuff to pay the bills to survive. But there's so much other aspects that are more important. And for me, going through that process was my mental health. It was happiness. It was, I'm going to say living more, and what I mean by living more is truly being present in the experiences I was having. Instead of just going on a trip or going to an event or concert where you think you're releasing from your day-to-day life, but you're not present, your mind's still elsewhere. And so those were some aspects I really tried, you know, focusing on the perception of the all-American or all-Canadian family and not living within that was never actually a thought for me. It wasn't “I'm not the traditional family. Something's wrong with me.” That was never there. And I was very fortunate to grow up in a household where my parents are still in love with each other. They're mushy at times. Still, they're celebrating their 45th wedding anniversary. 

Dawn Taylor

Amazing.

Chris Boyle

Grew up in a very positive household. I think maybe some of the aspects on our separation-slash-time frame from when things were not good to when things officially ended, that might have drug on a little bit, mainly because of the kids. I don't know if I would say it was because of the family concept but in that situation, I was still able to be around my girls 100% of the time, even though other aspects of family life weren't great. 

Dawn Taylor

Yeah. So for somebody else going through this, what do you recommend for them? 

Chris Boyle

First thing is try to be as self conscious as possible on what you're going through, what you're feeling and learn, even if it’s journaling, writing stuff, on how you're feeling and what aspects are making you feel a certain way that you can self reflect on. And then talk to somebody, whether it's counselor, hopefully a counselor, because sometimes friends have best interest in mind, but usually it's a biased view, or always, they put in their own experiences in their advice. So that would be one thing, and then the other is really practice gratitude. Even if it's little stuff. There's one book that I read, I think it's called The Happiness Effect. I can get it somewhere. I'll get you to send me the link for that so we can put it in the show notes for people.

Chris Boyle

Sure. And it was a really good book that started getting you to do little things. Um, even just 15 minutes walk a day, you know, taking pictures of stuff that makes you smile and then reflecting on it through a journal or digital aspect. So that was something that really helps. And then take time to be by yourself, like when you are alone. I know some people that are single, the first thing they want to do is get back out in the dating scene. And the nightmare that that is.

Dawn Taylor

So easy right now. 

Chris Boyle

It’s really taking that time and being comfortable with yourself and take that time to work on yourself. One of the best things I did is me and a buddy, we went down to Mexico for ten days, and this was a year and a half after I fully separated and stuff like that. And it was just nice to get away. Plus, that was kind of right near the end of COVID and stuff like that. Um, and just appreciating a trip like that. Being with a friend that supported me, not in terms of supported me, just knew what I was going through was just there and just we ended up meeting about five couples from all over North America where we were down there, and we still keep contact with all of them. We're planning another trip together as a group. So, just kind of the memories, the people I met and stuff like that was great thing. So, yeah, self-reflect, practice gratitude and take a trip.

Dawn Taylor

Spend some time alone. Spend some time alone figuring out what you really want and what you want to do moving forward. Is there, raising your daughters, what is it you really want to instill in them? Because I often will talk to people about, especially when going through a divorce or in building business or doing different things, is there's kind of two sides to it? Often people are like, “No, my kids need 100% of my time and my attention. And that's what I need them to see is that they're my number one.” And other people are like, “No, I really want my kids to see what it means to work hard and to build a business and to see that. I want my kids to see that in me and I'm going to explain that to them and have them incorporated in it.” What is your mindset on that and what is it you want to instill in your kids? 

Chris Boyle

Yeah, so the first part, it's finding that balance again and that's tough. Aria is nine, she's my oldest, and she can definitely comprehend stuff. Like I can have pretty deep conversations with her. And she was the one that came up to me a couple weeks ago where I was on the computer working, kids are home. And she's like, “Daddy, when are you going to spend time with us?” And so I had to sit down with her and have a conversation and “This is what Daddy needs to do to pay for where we live. If you want to do extracurricular stuff, we need money to do that.” And so she understood to a certain degree. But then there's that emotional, logical thing that for a nine year old that's going through probably some hormonal changes and everything else. You know, we're here. You're here. We want you to spend time with us, not do what you need to do. 

Dawn Taylor

Totally. 

Chris Boyle

So there's that. But I did have the conversation with her, too, is “I want you guys to work hard. I want you guys to not be dependent on anyone. And there's no sexism here, but whether it's a guy or a girl or me or your mom, you guys need to learn how to be self sufficient. And part of that is working hard and being passionate about something.” So to answer your second question, what do I want to instill in my girls? Follow their passion. And we're in a world where if you have a passion, you can find a way to make a living from it. Doesn't matter what it is. There's a way you can do it. Um, so, you know, there's a ton of other stuff, but at the end of the day, if they're following what they really want, and it's something that they truly are passionate about. There's a certain level of happiness that they carry with them, as opposed to, like many people, you probably let something that you really wanted to chase off to the side because of other commitments or society and how it perceives you. If you were to chase that compared to what you should be doing or what society as a whole- 

Dawn Taylor

The should be’s.

Chris Boyle 

Yeah, that would be the short, quick answer, I guess, on that. 

Dawn Taylor

Is there any support, short of government tax and all that, right? Wherever you're listening to this, because I know where people are from, I don't think there's a government out there that isn't a Gong Show when it comes to that or that just isn't a Gong Show in general right now. Are there any supports that you think need to be introduced or thought of or as friends, as siblings, as a society that we could give to dads that would step it up a little bit. That would help. I mean, it could be a reaction. It could be a response to something. It could be stepping in to help the babysitter invite you into a parent group. What kind of supports would you like to see or do you think need to

happen? 

Chris Boyle

Yeah, well, just to quickly touch on the government stuff, I do think and this is across all boards this isn't just for divorced dads, but mental health access should be free in Canada. I think that we've got enough resource if it's done effectively and efficiently because we waste so much dollars, especially on the medical side of things, from a government standpoint. But that's another conversation for another whole-

Dawn Taylor

Another podcast. 

Chris Boyle

In terms of support from society, guys might not want to hear this, but we have to take a lot of ownership ourselves first. I think we have to be the ones to change the stereotype and not care what society thinks and do what we know is best for us and to find like-minded people that we want to associate with on that front and learn from. If you're a family member of somebody going through a situation like this, I'm in a unique situation where I do all the cooking, I cook. But, there are a lot of men who don't know how to turn on a stove if they've been with a wife that does all the cooking. So don't ask. Just show up with food and stay here. That's one thing I think that could help a lot of guys in that situation. The second, and I'm fortunate I do have this situation, I've got aunts, not my aunts, but aunts of the kids, my grandparents. They'll ask if the kids want to have a sleepover or one of them has a sleepover. 

Dawn Taylor

Oh, nice.

Chris Boyle

That just alleviates some of the, I guess pressure, but also gives the kids a different experience.. Outside of that is just be positive. Like, have a positive aura. I know it's easy to be biased in a situation like this where one party is obviously closely tied to the man or the woman through a divorce or separation. Don't bash the other party because your kids? They're around that they hear that and to just make sure that they're in a positive surrounding. And at the end of the day, you're tied to your partner for the rest of your life whether you're married to them or not. And so really try rebuilding that friendship. 

Dawn Taylor

That is a whole conversation in and of itself right there. I work with kids ages twelve and up. But, right now, especially a lot of, like, the 16 to 25 year olds. And I don't think parents understand how much damage it does when you badmouth the other parent, when you put them down, when you badmouth them, when you make snide remarks, when you're like, “Oh, of course I didn't do that.” All of those, all of those little bitey remarks are so hard on your kids.

Chris Boyle

Because they don't know what to do, how to feel. Do they need to start picking aside? They go through so much now with everything from social media to everything else going on in the world. Not another thing that they need to have to deal with or have to emotionally process. 

Dawn Taylor

The amount of people that grew up feeling guilty for loving someone, guilty for loving a parent, guilty for loving a stepparent, guilty for connecting to someone else. I think if anyone ever did study on that, it would blow people's minds. Yeah. So, kudos to you for that, seriously. And for working so hard at that, is to have that amazing relationship with your ex. 

Chris Boyle

Don't get me wrong, it's not just easy. It's not like,”Okay, let's divorce. Let's be best friends.” 

Dawn Taylor

No, not at all. 

Chris Boyle

You put time in, you have to sacrifice. Sometimes you bite your tongue, but it's a long game. It's knowing the girls’ experience on how slight adjustments can change everything. 

Dawn Taylor

I love that. Chris, thank you so much for hanging out with us today, for doing this podcast, for being so vulnerable and open about this. I think it's a topic that needs to be talked about. I think that we need to stop judging the men in the park. Okay? They're not all bad. They might be there to read, too.

Chris Boyle

Yeah.

Dawn Taylor

Right? But also to give yourself the grace and to give yourself the understanding of like, “Hey, you know what? It might be the impossible thing to find that perfect balance. But your girls will know how much you love them, how much you care for them, the connections. I've always said this, and I remember this even growing up, it's just never about quantity, right? It's quality.

Chris Boyle

Yeah. And I got three of them. One of them is probably going to stick around and look after me when I'm old, so I've at least got some one in three chance.

Dawn Taylor

That's right. That is awesome. I love that so much. Thank you for hanging out with us and for the listeners. I hope that you heard something different today, something shifted in you. Maybe a perspective was shifted a little bit on what it is like. And if you are a single dad and you are needing some support, or if you're looking for a grant or for business stuff, I know Chris does all kinds of crazy cool stuff through his company. So check out the show notes at TheTaylorWay.ca, which is where you can find all of his contact information, also linked to the book on “The Happiness Effect” So we can share that with you. But please join us again in two weeks for another topic. And don't forget to check out those show notes. Learn more about Chris. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you love the show, leave a rating and review. See you guys in a couple of weeks.