Dawn Taylor|10/24/2022

Transcript:

Dawn Taylor: [00:00:09] Good morning and welcome to the Taylor Talks podcast. I am so excited. I know I say that every week, but I'm hanging out today with the amazing Kim Lyle. She is an acupuncture, she's a coach, she's a healer, she's all of these things. But more importantly, she is a mom, she is a wife, and she is a big believer and hater of the self-help industry and the fact that it has damaged more than it's healed. So if you're curious about this very controversial topic, stay tuned. We are going to deep dive into this. And also check out the show notes for the giveaway at the end.

Dawn Taylor: [00:00:46] Kim, welcome to the show. So I am so excited you're here today and let's just dive right in. What is the topic you wish people talked about?

Kim Lyle: [00:00:55] I wish people talked about more how the self-help industries and all of those types of industries are more damaging than good.

Dawn Taylor: [00:01:04] Oh, big topic in this world. As we both get canceled. So let's dive into this. You and I had met at, we we took a course together and we had chatted over coffee at one point about how the self-help world has actually become, I mean, it's a huge moneymaker for people. And I mean, you and I benefit off of that in the ways that we work with clients and we work with people. But also it has caused so much damage and hurt so many people. And no one talks about that. No one talks about that. So tell us a little bit about your story and how you came to this realization.

Kim Lyle: [00:01:53] So yeah, I've definitely had my own journey with the self-help and personal development, spirituality industries. I hadn't really kind of had a huge relationship with them previously in my life because I kind of grew up with this idea of just like I was who I was, and it was just who I was, right. There was nothing more I could do about it. There were faults within me and I just try to had to kind of fit myself into society with that way. Right? And so I had dabbled a little bit with the self-help industry, but it was always kind of along the lines of, you know, you should do a morning routine or you should change your habits or you should make sure you exercise right. And I feel like a lot of this, a lot of us kind of dabble in it, and it may not seem really damaging. And so that was kind of like my first introduction to it. Like I didn't really think too much of it. I just thought, this is what life is, no big deal. And so it wasn't until I had my, I have two kids, so I had my daughter when I was 32, she was like super easy baby. So didn't really kind of throw my life into a tailspin. But then I had my son 15 months later and he was just like such a high needs baby. So he didn't sleep. He needed to be held all the time. He was just constantly fussy and my husband worked away. I was home alone with him and then my daughter and I was just severely sleep deprived and I was just a mess. I was not doing good. And so about when he was about nine months old, I was still really, really struggling. And I just I finally reached my breaking point. And because I was always kind of like, how do I say it? I was always kind of blaming other people for my issues, right? Like the fact that I was struggling. It was very much like, Oh, it's because my husband works away or because he does this and it's because my son is this way. And then finally I reached this point where I was just like, you know what? Like blaming other people and blaming my circumstances, that's not working for me anymore, right? I need to figure out how to improve my life. I hate feeling so terrible right now. And so that was when I started engaging, like, really deeply with these industries of self-help, spirituality, personal development, because I thought, okay, I've really got to get to know myself. I've really got to take responsibility for my life and how I'm feeling. And so when I did that, though, that was when I just realized how damaging and toxic these systems were, because those systems were not designed to help people who have no time and space. They're not designed to help people who have no support. They're not designed to help people who don't have a lot of money or or things like that. Right? Like everything within the self-help industries I found was it took a lot of time. Like it takes a lot of extra time in your day to fit all of these things in. And so if you don't have the time to fit those things into your life, you're a failure. You're not trying hard enough.

Dawn Taylor: [00:04:48] Oh but you should be able to find the hours. You're just not creating them.

Kim Lyle: [00:04:53] Exactly. Like not having time is an excuse. That's what I heard over and over and over again, right? So and so I was gaslighting myself. I was listening to these industries because they promised to help me. Like, I'm taking responsibility for myself. I'm going to figure out how to feel better, improve my life, get to know myself. But everything they asked me to do required... you have to do this every day. You have to be consistent. You have to show up for yourself. I was at a point in my life where I was still severely sleep deprived. I didn't have any time or space in my life. I had a high needs baby. My husband still worked away and I was like, How am I supposed to do all of these things? Like how? And it just ended up breaking me. It just made me feel actually worse than I felt previously to engaging with these industries, right? Like I had already reached my breaking point. And then I was like, I'm going to show up for myself, figure it out. And I just ended up worse off. In all honesty, I felt worse about myself. I gaslit myself constantly. And then, you know, with the spirituality industries, they really kind of gaslight me in the way that it was like I needed someone magical to heal me. I needed to spend money to trust these people who could like, clear these energetic blocks within me, and then I would be saved. And so I was really handing myself over to these people and spending money on things that I didn't have the money for. But I just kept thinking like, God, there's something wrong with me. I need these people to heal me.

Dawn Taylor: [00:06:19] Okay. Pause right there. There's something wrong with me. That is probably my biggest pet peeve in so many of these industries. And I mean, we can go. We can dig into social media and the effect it's had, and magazine covers and how we were raised, and all of these things. But this industry is so much focused on you're broken and you have to be fixed to be okay. Instead of like, no, no. And it's just an analogy, metaphor or whatever, I forget the word I'm supposed to use right there, but that I used to use with clients all the time was like, Picture yourself as a Mr. Potato Head doll. You're actually beautiful and whole. Like the core of who you are is beautiful and whole. Some of your parts just might be in the wrong spots. And so some like little tweaks and adjustments, but like, you're not broken. No part of you is broken. But what we are seeing and learning and hearing is teaching us that we're broken and we just need one more book. And you know, if you got up every day at 4:30 or 5, which I will be honest, I used to preach that to people all the time, is like, if you want to find time in your day, figure out where to put time in your day. And so for some people, but not a sleep deprived, brand new mom. So it was like find your happy hour of when you can wake up and when you can thrive. But it was, but that was something that had I have been ingrained in as well was like you have to read every day and you have to journal every day and you have to eat a perfect diet every day and you have to be working out and this and this and this, and you're broken if you're not.

Kim Lyle: [00:07:58] Totally. And that was the thing too, is all of these things that I was like I, I had really low self esteem, obviously, at that point. I didn't really think very highly of myself. I really thought like I sucked at life. And so but the other thing too is like I also felt like everything I was being asked to do - get out in nature, exercise, journal, meditate, get up early, have a morning routine, all of these things - I didn't feel them deeply within me. It just felt like a very surface level thing. It just felt like another thing to do on my to do list. And it was like, how are how are people supposed to get to know themselves, create a deeper connection to themselves, undo all of the conditioning they've gone through without their entire life, without having a deep sense of self, right? And that was what I was missing. And these industries were no, wasn't helping me create a deeper sense of self. It was just keeping me distracted. It was just keeping me distracted on trying to fit these extra things into my life. It was not helping me get to know myself at all. It was always taking me out of the present moment. Oh my God, what am I going to fit exercise in? My kids, they're so annoying. They never leave me alone. I don't have any time and space, like it was keeping me focused on all the things I didn't have available to me. And then thinking I needed those things in order to improve my life. So yeah, and that's the thing too, is like, I feel like that happened to me when my a few years ago. It's been about four years now since I kind of realized that. But then so I kind of realized that had a little bit of time to practice doing things differently. And then it was like, boom, COVID happened. And so I feel like a lot of people are now at that position. I mean, our society and our culture was moving in that direction anyways, right? Like people were always talking about how they don't have time. Social media is purposely addictive. So that's that's taking more of our time. Like there's all these ways that we're being manipulated within our society and we're not being supported in the way that we need to. So our society was already moving in that direction and people were feeling more stressed and anxious and depressed and burnt out. Then COVID came and it just like piled so much stuff on top of more people, especially moms, because they're the ones who have to stay home and do schooling and they're dealing with their kids mental health and they're dealing with financial issues and relationship issues. And I would say the majority of the burden fell onto moms. And so now moms are at this point now where it's like their nervous systems are completely shot. They have no extra time and space and they're taking on so many extra burdens. And so everyone's kind of reaching that max point. Yet we're still all trying to reach to the self-help industries to try and help us, and they're just not helpful for people who don't have time, who don't have space, who don't have support, all of those things, you don't have the extra money.

Dawn Taylor: [00:10:49] So for people listening, I know that I'm going to get messages from people being like, but the self-help industry saved my life. And this is where I will play devil's advocate for a second is, yes, parts of the self-help industry are outstanding and a lot of healers out there have the most beautiful intentions and they do really phenomenal work. And it's very good. But it also comes down to a point of contentment. And at what point can you actually just look at your life and be like, This is good, this is good, This isn't maybe where I want to be, or, you know, like I'm still growing and I'm still doing things because I do believe you need to. We need to continually grow in life. But the whole idea that we're broken, if we're not. That we're damaged, that we're not good enough, that we're not doing enough. That we're not... All of those things drives me insane. Like the amount of times I have even clients go, I know, but shouldn't I be journaling? And I'm like, Do you enjoy journaling? Well, no, I hate it. And I'm like, Then stop journaling,

Kim Lyle: [00:12:08] Stop doing it. Yeah.

Dawn Taylor: [00:12:10] Like, you don't have to. And they'll be like, But no, but, but I have to work out and I have to work out every single day. And I'm like, But you could also go like, have a dance party in your kitchen and you could go to the park and play with your kids. And that's ten times more beneficial than making sure you make it to the next spin class or the next, whatever it is. And we've lost our ability to go, Hey, this is actually serving me and this is really beneficial to me. And this I actually hate. Like this part of it actually makes me angry, which is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to.

Kim Lyle: [00:12:46] Exactly. And, and that's the thing. It's more so these industries that I have an issue with, it's not necessarily a particular advice they give because I would never argue that exercising is bad for you or that you shouldn't meditate or that you shouldn't journal. Like all of those practices in, within themselves are fine and they can be helpful and they can be supportive. So like you said, don't do something just because someone tells you it worked for them or that you should do it, or that this will be the thing to help you. Be aware of how it makes you feel. And if it actually, like you feel like you have a deep connection and you love it and it feels nourishing and it fills you up and it helps you, then by all means continue to do it. But the thing as well is it's not something I feel like you have to do every single day. It's not a chore. It's not a thing on your to do list. It's just being in the present moment and being like, What can I do to support me right now? What's available to me? Because not always what we want to be available to us is available to us. And if we always focus on what we wish was available to us, that keeps us unable to be able to figure out what actually do we need and what can I do in this moment? So it's like, sure, I would love to be able to exercise every day, but when I try to exercise, I just end up getting angry at my kids because they don't leave me alone or whatever, right? So. So it's like, okay, well then what can I do right now to move my body? Again,like you said, dance parties like I do that to shift the energy in our house all the time. You know, I would try to go for walks with my kids when they were young. And because I love getting outside and I love going for walks. Right? But even that would be like it wouldn't be very fun because one kid would have a pooping accident, one would run away from me, one would start crying on the ground and I end up carrying two kids home. And it was just an absolute disaster, right? So it was like, this is just where I am in my life. What is available to me? What can I do? Instead of wishing like I should be able to do all these things or I wish I had all these things? I love journaling. I've always loved journaling, but journaling is not something I do every day. I don't wake up and think, okay, I have to make sure I put journaling in. It was more so like a if it was available to me and if I felt like I needed it, then I would. I would do it. So I have no issue with those things. It's just you don't need to exercise, you don't need to meditate, you don't need to journal, you don't need you don't actually need any of those things in your life. You don't need to try to make sure you fit those into your life.

Dawn Taylor: [00:15:13] No, we don't have to at all.

Kim Lyle: [00:15:15] And so whenever you feel like this should, I always tell people to be like, think about that for a second. Is it a should or like, is it actually deeply nourishing for you? Because if it's a should you like purposely don't do it just to show yourself that you can do it without it?

Dawn Taylor: [00:15:30] Well, and part of it too is - and I had this conversation this morning with a friend - was we also the self-help industry has also designed it very much that if it doesn't feel good, we don't do it. And that's one of my biggest pet peeves. It's like but it doesn't feel right. It's not aligning with me. And that gets said so many times and I hear that all the time. And I'm like, okay, I get it. Some things in life don't feel good, but we still have to do them because we need to do them for our mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, financial, relational health. We can't just not ever work because it doesn't feel good. No, we have bills to pay. We can't never do the dishes because it doesn't feel good. Like no, like you have maggots crawling in your counter and ant problems. Right? Because you're never doing your dishes. And I find that the growth and development industry has very much done the same, is like but it has to feel good. But I'm going to do this because it feels good and it's like, No, no, no. Sometimes we actually have to do hard things. I agree with you in so much of it in like, no if we should do it because someone is telling us we have to, you know, we need to actually take a look at it and go, what is it that like, What is my intention behind that action and that activity. For myself, waking up really early, it doesn't feel good, but it benefits me so much throughout my day. It allows me to not feel so stressed out. It gives me time as an introvert to like, decompress. It allows me all of those things. It doesn't mean I love it all the time.

Kim Lyle: [00:17:13] Yeah. And so that's the thing. You're not doing it like a should. You're doing it because it fills you up because you have a deep connection to it, because it--

Dawn Taylor: [00:17:22] But I don't feel good, but I don't is the thing.

Kim Lyle: [00:17:26] But it does feel good, right? Because it helps you in the day. It gives you that--.

Dawn Taylor: [00:17:29] Well it helps me. It helps me throughout the day. But it's still something that I know I should do it. And this is where I want to be careful in like the wording we use, is should coming from ourselves and should coming from society are two very different things.

Kim Lyle: [00:17:45] Yeah. And it's sometimes a hard thing to kind of differentiate. Is this coming from me or is this coming from society because we've been so heavily conditioned throughout our lives. What's me? What society? What's my family?

Dawn Taylor: [00:17:59] 100%. And that's where I want to challenge people listening that might be like, what? I don't know how to deal with this. And right is for me, I always look at it as, okay, what is my intention? Like, what are my goals? What is it I'm wanting to do? What is it that I'm trying to get out of this? I did a crazy project a few years ago and I read somewhere that you need to read like a growth and development book or self-help book every week. That is like the ideal for growth and development is to read a book a week. And I was like, Cool, I'm going to do better than that. If that's the ideal and more is better, I'm going to do better and see what it actually does. So I started to read 75 growth and development books over the course of a year. And oh, I know. And in eight months I hit number 50 and I didn't just read them, I read them, I journaled about them, I wrote like an, like I audited them pretty much. I had like an entire blog based on it. I was like, This is who I would recommend this to. This is my thoughts on it. This is what I agree with, what I don't agree with, what I like, what I don't like. I did a video on YouTube about every single one. Like so I didn't just read a book, like I read these books. And at book 50, I sat down and I was like, okay, out of all 50 of these - and I remember sitting in my office and having all of them laid out - I was like, Would I read any of these again? There were maybe ten out of the 50 that I would have even recommended to people. And I was reading some of the top books on the market at that point in these areas. A lot of these have been recommended to me and what I found was it was the same regurgitated garbage over and over and over. There didn't feel like there was a ton of substance and there were a lot of really vague concepts. There were so many vague concepts that it was like, You need to do this thing, but I'm not going to tell you how to do it. And you need to figure it out. Which is such a thing in this industry. And I'll never forget the first time I realized that as I was listening to a speaker and she's like, I want everyone to stop. And just close your eyes. And I want you to breathe into your spirit heart. And I would like open my eyes and look around because I was like, What the fuck is she talking about? Like, what is the spirit heart? I breathe into my lungs. I don't know what's going on. And everyone's just like, sitting there all into this. And I'm like, What did I miss? And so with that, I want to, for people listening, can we go over between the two of us, like because we have similar but different views on this because there is a lot of beautiful self-help stuff, incredible self-help stuff. But can we maybe give some tips to people on like what to watch for? What the red flags could be. What are other ways of doing things that can maybe benefit them in a healthier way?

Kim Lyle: [00:21:02] OK Yeah, because to kind of just go back to what you were mentioning before about like doing hard things, like not everything's going to be easy, and I agree with that. I definitely did things to help me, even when I had no time, even when I had no space, no support, anything like that. There were things I was able to do to help me. And they weren't necessarily easy, but I knew that they would help me. But I was choosing what I was going to do, right? Like I wasn't listening to anyone else. But the other thing that you mentioned too, is the only way we're going to know whether it's a should internal or whether it's a should external would just be to do the thing, be present while we're doing it and see what comes up, see what feelings are coming up inside of you. Right? That will kind of give you the answer of whether or not it's an internal should or if it's an external should. We can't know one way or the other if we're sitting at the sidelines stuck in our head trying to analyze, it's like this is, you need to experiment. So you just need to experiment with different things, see how it feels in your body, be aware of that, and then kind of make a decision based on that.

Dawn Taylor: [00:22:08] Totally. So let's break down some of the big ones and maybe alternatives to even how they're done. So one of the biggest is like meditation. Everybody talks meditation. Everybody. Like that is the thing you hear from every celebrity, every guru, every therapist. Like, there's a million apps for it. I'm hereby declaring my name is Dawn Taylor, and I hate meditation. Like, hate it. And here's why. Is - not that I have to justify it, hear me when I say that - but I've gone for brain mapping and my brain vibrates at almost three times the pace of a normal brain. When I close my eyes, it almost doubles. I fight my brain all day, every day to be calm. I fight it. The only time in life that I feel calm is when I'm, like, in intense situations. New York rush hour Friday afternoon when everyone's trying to leave the city on a long weekend. I stood in Columbus Circle and cried because I felt so calm. Going to a concert and having 30,000 people screaming. And that intense energy is when I feel calm. I just fell asleep at a concert last night because it was so intense. And that's what relaxes me. For me, meditation looks very different than the person who sits with a Calm app or the person who goes to the yoga studio and does like a big meditation thing. I play Lego. Or I color or I, I calmly do things, but there has to be more of an intensity to it. Do you know what I mean? Big smells, big sounds.

Kim Lyle: [00:24:05] Totally. No, I get that. And that's the thing too. It's about meeting yourself with where you're at. I think a lot of us will feel anxiety or anger, like kind of those big energy emotions. And then we're told in the self-help industry, spirituality industry, whatever, like you need to meditate, you need to calm yourself down. But that's really just trying to kind of like stuff it down. Like, I feel like you need to match your energy to where it's at so you can actually do something about it then. It's like this idea of like meeting you where you're at. So meditation, because I feel like there's a difference between like nervous system regulation tools and coping mechanisms.

Dawn Taylor: [00:24:43] So explain those for people that don't understand what those terms are.

Kim Lyle: [00:24:46] So for me, a coping mechanism is I mean, it can be a few different things. It can really be anything, anything can be a coping mechanism, but it's bringing you back to kind of this feeling that you're used to feeling, so like this familiar feeling. For me, my familiar feeling was numb and disconnected. That was kind of like my happy place of where I felt comfortable. But for other people it could be like anxiety, even though it's not like super comfortable. It's like where they always are. It's kind of their like natural state, they're normal state. They're used to it. So we'll do things to kind of bring us back into that, into that space, or we'll try and do things to like not go there. So, for example, you tend to be like a really anxious person. You could use meditation as a way to try and calm that anxiety, but you're not actually meeting that anxiety. You're not doing anything about that anxiety. You're just hoping it will go away. So meditation would be like a coping mechanism, right? Meditation can also be a nervous system regulation tool depending on how you use it and who you are. So again, it's that should internally like this, this feels helpful. This puts me in a position of being able to choose differently moving forward, instead of just kind of like bringing you back to that familiar place. Does that make sense or was that confusing?

Dawn Taylor: [00:25:58] No, it made sense. Well, it makes sense to me. I always look at it as like, what is what is it I'm actually feeling? We don't actually have to just, like, bottle up and ignore our feelings. My favorite ever is when people are like, You need to calm down. I'm like, No, no, no. Let's actually just be mad. Like, what is your actual feeling that you're trying to run away from? Let's sit with it for a second and face it and be like, Huh, You're interesting. What caused you?

Kim Lyle: [00:26:26] If your nervous system is like it kind of like, goes offline or whatever, then sure, meditation could be something to bring you back into a place so you could actually meet that anger. And so then you can actually deal with it. But if you're using it as a coping mechanism, you're not there to meet your anger. You're there to like, get away from the anger. I'm trying to ignore it. So so it can be both. Just like exercise can be a great nervous system regulation tool, but it can also be used as a coping mechanism. Some people exercise to not feel. So that's why it's so different for every single person. There's no one blanket rule as to what's going to work for you or what you should do, right. This is why people do need to just jump in and experiment to figure it out, right? They need to know how they feel.

Dawn Taylor: [00:27:07] Oh, 100%. And Kim and I, I'm surprising her with this, but Kim and I are going to do a little like a giveaway at the end. You guys know that I always do like a fun giveaway at the end of all these. We'll do a giveaway that gives you like alternative things to try. Ones that are free, ones that are easy, ones that don't take up a ton of time. Some alternatives that we have found have really helped us in our journeys that don't match up 100% to what society is telling us we should be doing. We will do that for you guys. Kim's like, Oh, good thanks Dawn for telling me we're doing that. As just like a friend giveaway, right? Like it's super fun giveaway at the end. So what ways has the self-help industry actually benefited you though? In what ways has it actually served you and helped you? And then we're going to get back to like the red flags people need to look for.

Kim Lyle: [00:28:02] Yeah, totally. Honestly, I want to say the self-help, all of those industries, I would say they served me because I was so angry with them that it kind of fueled my fire to find a different way. And so I would say that's how they benefited me. The fact that I don't engage with them at all anymore. It actually, because I found them to be so harmful for me in my situation where I had no time and space, no support, no everything like that, that it actually fueled my fire. And it was kind of like they gave me like a fuck you energy of like, I'm not going to believe you. I'm not going to trust you. You're a sheep in wolf's clothing. I'm going to find my own way. And so it kind of fueled me in that direction. So I would say that's how it's benefited me. It pissed me off so much that I was like, I'm never engaging with you.

Dawn Taylor: [00:28:53] That's awesome, I love it. I love that you're just so angry about it. You're just like, No, I hate it.

Kim Lyle: [00:28:59] I definitely I mean, obviously we can't have anger sustain us through everything, but it definitely was that kickstart to be like, No, I have to find a different way because I'm no longer handing myself over to these industries. So. So now that I've completely divested from these industries, I'm able to maybe engage with some of their practices a little bit more, but not because they're self-help. It's because it's like meditation, exercise, whatever. Like I'm still going to do those things that's not like owned by the self-help industry, but just the idea behind self-help and all these things you quote/unquote, should do, that I've completely divested from. Like I don't make my decisions based on anything that someone tells me to do.

Dawn Taylor: [00:29:40] No. And that's, it's funny because, like with that, I agree. And at the same time I'm like, but I still want to learn. I'm always curious. I'm always curious about what people are doing and what people are teaching and what people, like how people are showing up. So I think I'm like a halfway between. So for myself, I'm really big on not going with what the fad is. So for some red flags for people that are watching this, is number one if you are looking for like a book or a podcast or an actual healer or a teacher or a coach or whatever it is, take a look at who they actually are. So do your research on who the person is behind the scenes. And do you actually want their real life? But secondly, have they gone through what you've gone through to even be able, to even be able to understand what it is you're wanting from them? That was a huge one for me, was I'm going to school right now to become a certified grief facilitator. But I looked around and I was researching all of these different programs all over the world and all these different teachers and all these different things. And I was like, No, no, no, show me the facility. Show me the teachers that have actually lost somebody. That have actually done the work, that have the training, that have actually gone through the things to understand it on a different level. Though I didn't go with the local person that everybody goes with. I found some person in the States that I'm like, No, no, no he's actually done the work to overcome. So I'm willing to hear what he says and then decide if I want to take that advice or not. Right, on how that works. So that is a big one for me, is who's teaching it? Who is having the conversation with you?

Kim Lyle: [00:31:32] Totally. No, I 100% agree. It's really important to me if I'm going to look to anyone to help me, they don't necessarily have to have kids, but I do find that that is very helpful. If people have had difficult babies, if they've had a period of time in their life where they haven't had time available to them, because anyone who hasn't gone through a period of time in their life where they haven't had time, their time isn't theirs to choose how to use it, I can't relate to them. The advice they give to me isn't relatable to me. Right? All of these people who are single and and don't have kids and all of these things and they just tell me the same stuff. Well, you need to make the time. You need to exercise, you need to show up for yourself. You need to do all these things. And I was like, You don't get it. Like, I can't I can't relate. And that's the other thing that I think is really important is if you are seeking help from someone and they make you feel worse, they make you feel like you're not good enough. They make you feel desperate. They gaslight you into questioning whether or not you're doing enough or if you're doing it right. They don't actually calm your nervous system. They don't--.

Dawn Taylor: [00:32:39] Okay, give some examples.

Kim Lyle: [00:32:40] Well, one would be just like, you're not doing enough. You're not showing up. You're not, time is an excuse. Well, you need to make the time to.

Dawn Taylor: [00:32:49] Are you sure? Are you sure you're trying? That's my favorite. Are you sure? Did you really? Did you really? We followed up with whatever it is they're trying to tell you.

Kim Lyle: [00:33:00] Yeah, exactly right. Like, just constantly this questioning you. They don't just believe what you say. They make you question your reality. And it's done in a way where they try to make you think like, I'm just I'm helping you see another perspective. Or I'm like, they're doing it in a caring way. So it's it's tricky to see because I encourage people to to question their perspectives as well, right?

Dawn Taylor: [00:33:23] Oh, I do, too. All the time.

Kim Lyle: [00:33:25] Of course. Right. Like we need outside perspectives in order to see different things. Like we have so many blind spots. If we're trying to do it all of our all, all our selves. But people would ask me, and it was almost like I felt like I had to agree with them. Like, you're right, you know, I, I can find time to exercise. And you're right. Like, I am not showing up for myself. And it was like, No, actually that's not true. I don't have time. Like, you know.

Dawn Taylor: [00:33:50] And you're like, No, literally, I can't do that. I don't think you understand.

Kim Lyle: [00:33:55] Yeah.

Dawn Taylor: [00:33:55] So my favorite was, my favorite red flag for people is at any point in time, if someone says, Can you afford to not work with me?

Kim Lyle: [00:34:07] Oh, oh, I hate that. I hate that.

Dawn Taylor: [00:34:11] The slimy sales tactics of like, what is your dream? Where are you going? We're going to get you there. You can't not afford to work with me. But then going if you can see our faces right now we're both like crawling. But and I had I've had people say that to me so many times.

Kim Lyle: [00:34:34] Anything to do with money? Like money. If people try and gaslight you to believe that you don't have enough money to invest in what they're selling you, that's a red flag.

Dawn Taylor: [00:34:41] Or that you have to find it or you haven't manifested it enough or you haven't, anything like that. And my other really, really big one and maybe this is my age, right? Maybe this is that I have a more old fashioned marriage, but I don't drop massive amounts of money without talking to my husband. It doesn't matter how much money I make, it doesn't matter what I'm doing. It doesn't matter if it's mine or his or any of that. It's a respect for our finances as a couple that I do that. And so I'll never forget talking to, it was a well-known coach and I was looking for a coach for myself, and we were talking and I said, you know, honestly, right now, like, I don't have the money. I said, My husband hasn't been working. He's been really sick. There's literally not the money in the bank account. And the money that's coming in, yes, yes, I could spend it, but I don't know when he's going back to work right now because of his health. So I can't. I can't. I cannot put that money into this at this point. And I got this bullshit line on, Wow, you're really not trusting the universe to provide. And I was like, No, no, it's not that. It's logically and literally. It came back to the logic for me of it doesn't actually matter because I don't... Like No, no, that's, that's not actually helping. And then even when I couldn't fight back on that and I was like, okay, well, maybe I'm not and maybe I'm not actually trusting that money could come in and it could show up in other ways because it does. Like if we actually trust, like money weirdly does show up and that's a whole nother conversation. But like then when I said, well, you know what? I need to talk to my husband about this and just make sure that we're okay with this commitment. Because it was a couple thousand bucks, which is still big money to be putting out every month. Like I get that. And it was a six month or one year contract or something crazy. And I was like, No, no, no, like, I'm very aware of that. And if I feel like this is what I'm supposed to do and I talk to my husband and we agree, and then, yeah, I have no issue signing up and putting the work in because I'm very dedicated when I'm doing the work. And then I got a comment on how I was allowing my husband to control my finances in my business.

Kim Lyle: [00:37:06] Yeah, like that would be instant. Like, I don't care who you are. I'm not working with you. Yeah, like, that would be instant, I'm done. Like, there's no, if you're trying to play on my desperation or manipulate me and not trust what I'm telling you, that's an instant red flag to me. And I instantly say, No, I don't even engage with it when I notice those things going on right now. Like, if you can't trust the reality of what I'm telling you, then I don't want to work with you. Because that's the thing. People tell me I don't have the time to do that. I'm like, okay, I'm going to trust that you tell me that you don't have the time. Then what are some things we can do with the amount of time you do have or whatever, right? Like meet people where they're at, Don't try and convince them otherwise. And so if anyone tries to convince me or gaslight and manipulate me, I'm instantly out. I don't care how good they are. I don't. I don't care because I'm like, this is just a sign of what's to come.

Dawn Taylor: [00:38:03] I am the same. And then with that, the other one and, and I don't think people maybe because of age, please listen, if you're listening to this, we're not saying you're stupid if you have fallen for this. Because we have fallen for this. A million times we have fallen for this, right? We're just now at a point where we're not. But another one that I love is like this scarcity mindset of like, there's only three spots, so there's only another 30 minutes or 60 minutes to buy in. And it's funny because I took a course, it was about a year and a half ago and it was literally about selling without sleaze, how to sell yourself on a stage or sell yourself to people without the sleaze. I have never felt so sleazy in my life. I didn't even finish the course. And it was like a live, like there weren't that many people, we were talking and answering questions, like I actually didn't go because the amount of times in the day workshop another course is brought up and another thing was brought up and another thing was brought up. And to elevate this, you have to do this. And to elevate this, you have to do this. And then this other thing was brought up. And then when she started talking about like how to sell and she's like, Oh yeah, if you hit them here and hit them here and hit them at this point, at this point, like by the end they're going to be desperate to buy. And I was like, Oh my word, your entire talk is a massive manipulation.

Kim Lyle: [00:39:26] Yeah. And that's how people are told to sell, like within these industries, right? Like they're told the manipulation tactic.

Dawn Taylor: [00:39:36] 100%. It makes me so angry.

Kim Lyle: [00:39:38] Right? Like, let's touch on people's pain points to make them feel like they have to work with you. That's the whole idea behind all these marketing things. It is not like filled with informed consent, just being totally upfront and trusting other people to make the decisions. Like you don't have to manipulate people to work with you if you trust that you're good at what you do.

Dawn Taylor: [00:39:59] Hey, say that again.

Kim Lyle: [00:40:02] You don't have to manipulate people to work with you if you're good at what you do. But it's harder for people... Okay, here's the thing, though, is it is easier to grow your business if you manipulate people? You know what I mean? And so everyone wants, oh, I need money. I need money. Right? And so it's like, yeah, you know what? Because people have been conditioned to be manipulated. They've been they've been manipulated to trust other people more than themselves, so they will fall for it, which is what I really try and talk about a lot is like, don't trust other people. Don't, you, like you can trust yourself like you do that thing that you're telling yourself like this feels off, listen to it. And work with people who make you feel safe. Work with people who like give you informed consent, who make you feel like you can say yes, you can say no. Like that's really, really important for people to trust themselves.

Dawn Taylor: [00:40:54] I remember in like back in the day and like even now, like in my social media and stuff, I'll be like, Hey, is this something you're struggling with? Like, let me know. But the minute I stopped attempting to sell or trying to desperately get another client was when they started coming in. Because it wasn't who I was. And I'm like the world's worst sales person because I think all of it's bullshit. So even now, like, I'll talk to somebody or I'll work with somebody or they'll contact me and I'm like, No, no, I might not be the right fit for you. And I'm 100% okay with that. But like, Hey, let's do a consultation or let's do just like an initial session and see if we're the right fit, because I might not be the right fit for you and you might not be the right fit for me.

Kim Lyle: [00:41:41] I agree. Yeah.

Dawn Taylor: [00:41:42] And that's okay. And maybe I can recommend you to somebody else who would be a better fit. But that's a piece of integrity that I feel like is missing. And I'm not saying I get it 100% right every time, but it's a piece of integrity that's missing. To be like, Hey, you know what? Talk to your spouse. Think about it. Pray about it, meditate on it. Journal. I don't care. Like talk to 400 friends about it. I'm not going anywhere. And I'm here if you want to work with me.

Kim Lyle: [00:42:17] Totally. And that's the thing. Be aware of someone's playing on your desperation because I was really desperate.

Dawn Taylor: [00:42:24] And I've been there, right? I've been there and I've been so desperate where I was like, I don't know how I'm going to get through my day. I don't know how I'm going to get through my week. I'm full blown falling apart right now. And then somebody would be like, It's okay, I'll rescue you. And you just have to spend this money and you just have to take this course and you just have to do this thing and then you're going to lose the weight and you're going to fix your marriage and you're going to have all these things healed. And, and, and, and it's like--

Kim Lyle: [00:42:51] You brought up another key point. If people are promising massive change in a short period of time. That is a red flag for me. Because actual sustainable change, like you need to work with your nervous system. And your nervous system doesn't just shift overnight. When they're like, you need to take up space and you need to be bold and loud. And it's like, if that's not how you're used to being like, it takes time to get there, to have the strength to be able to actually be bold and out there. You can't do that in like a three week course or a six month course. You need to meet yourself with where you're at right now. So anyone's promising like big, bold, massive change in my life, I'm like, no. To me it feels... Like I've had massive change within my life within the past three years. Like it's been huge. And so--.

Dawn Taylor: [00:43:40] But I think it depends what it is. And here's why I say that, is like even with my own clients, I'm like, Oh good. I'm the person who will say that you can have massive change. But I always back it with like, if you do the work, if you do the work and you are like 100% in and you're like, ready to make massive change. Then you can have big change and you can have it fairly quick. But it's still like over the course of two days or the course of like one session of something, your entire world is going to be rocked and you'll be healed. That's where I struggle. That's where I struggle.

Kim Lyle: [00:44:20] And I guess it just depends on what's available to you. I didn't feel like massive change was available to me in a short period of time because I have two young kids, a husband who worked away, all of these other things. So I didn't have any extra time, extra things. So I guess that's where I'm basing it off of because on my own experience is like quick, massive change wasn't available to me because I didn't have the time to invest in doing all these extra things I was supposed to do. So I guess that's important for people. Like, sure, if you have the extra time and space to be able to do all these extra things, you maybe can have change a little bit quicker. But for me, sure, I want all this massive change, but I would have to ignore my children if I if I was able to do that, you know? And so I was like, I have to be in my reality of what's available to me right now. And massive changes within my life just isn't available right now. So I was the slow and steady, which worked well for me because three years down the road my life is like so completely different. Even though like externally it looks pretty similar to what it did three years ago. My kids are a little bit older. But like how I feel, how I show up in my life, how I interact with people is completely different. And I just like, you know, tiny, tiny, tiny steps was how I got to where I am. Whereas before, because I didn't have a lot of time or space or support, every time I tried to make massive changes and jump, I would just end up like back to where I was before, right? So I never actually made any progress forward because those big, bold changes, I couldn't do massive change. So I suppose it depends on your situation.

Dawn Taylor: [00:45:55] Well, I think it depends on personality too. It totally depends on - this is gonna sound funny - but it's like how desperately you want and crave and need the change. I have a personality where I can make a decision on something and I can flip that switch like that fast and I'm like, No change, done, good. But that's my personality, that plays into who I am. And so I have clients that are the same where it's literally like a switch in their head where it's like, Oh no, no, no, I could literally do this over the next 10 hours and I'm done. I'm good. And they've created massive, massive shifts in their lives. Where there's a lot of people that and is based on how, you know, what their past is, what they've gone through, how jaded they are, what their beliefs are, how desperately they want it, where they're coming from, how much time they have, how much like what resources they have. Like there's all of these different metrics that play into that. But some people need the slow and steady and some people are like, Oh no, we're going to just like bulldoze this at the most rapid pace ever and make huge change. And that's awesome, right? And I see that every day with clients. Like, I have some clients. They're like, No, no, no. Like, how fast can we do this? Yeah. And I'm like, Well, based on your personality, 17 hours and they're like, Cool, let's rock my entire world in 17 hours or whatever the number is. And they do it. They do it, and it's sustainable and it's lasting. And like if they do the work, they can maintain it.

Kim Lyle: [00:47:33] And have the time to do the work.

Dawn Taylor: [00:47:35] Well, and that too, like if they have the time to do the work.

Kim Lyle: [00:47:38] Yeah, for sure.

Dawn Taylor: [00:47:39] And I think but even that you and I look at those things, because you and I have such different personalities and how we grow and change and shift in our lives and the time we have and all of those things. And so for someone listening, the biggest thing we want you to take out of today, or at least I want you to take out of today, is just because your journey looks different than somebody else's doesn't mean it's wrong or it's broken or you're broken or any of those things. And if none of the things of society or this industry is telling you work for you, you're not getting results, it's not working, you're not seeing the change, you're not able to do it, there's other ways. And it's not your fault. It's not a fault of yours or an issue with you that it's not working.

Kim Lyle: [00:48:29] 100%. Oh, yeah.

Dawn Taylor: [00:48:30] All the time. Right? Like, like there's there's so much more to it.

Kim Lyle: [00:48:34] Yeah, I agree.

Dawn Taylor: [00:48:35] And that's really what I want you guys to take out of this. And Kim, like, that's something that you and I talked about, right, is for people to go, Hey, there is a different way to heal. There's different ways to get help. There's different ways to... Different paces, different styles. I mean, that's I guess that's the one good thing about the industry is it's so big and so broad. That there are a million different ways to get help.

Kim Lyle: [00:49:03] Totally. Definitely. Yeah. Like, like you said, I think it's just really important for people to acknowledge where they are in their life, what is actually available to them, what time, what resources exactly. Right. Like those are important to be with where you're at, acknowledge where you are, be in reality and be open to like don't fight for your limitations. Right? Like I could have fought for my limitations and been like, I have no time. I have no time. What are you talking about? There's nothing I can do. And it was true that I didn't have any extra time. But there were things that I did that didn't take up extra time that really helped me move forward in my life. So this idea of like, people being powerless to their circumstances, society loves to convince you that you're powerless if you don't have time, if you don't have money, if you don't have support, there's nothing you can do. That's not true. That's not that's not true. So it's like believing in yourself that even if you don't have the things you wish you had right now, there still are things you can do to at least move in the direction you want to go. And when you continually move in the direction you want to go, even if it's slow, if that's all available to you right now, three years, you're going to look back and be like, Oh my God, I've made so much progress. Yeah, definitely.

Dawn Taylor: [00:50:18] It's so true. So to end off our hour today, I like to ask, just like ask four silly questions. Just like four silly questions that just help people get to know us better. So what do you spend a silly amount of money on?

Kim Lyle: [00:50:35] What do I spend a silly amount of money on? Oh, my goodness, you caught me off guard. What do I spend?

Dawn Taylor: [00:50:40] I'll give you a second to think about it, and I'll tell you, my current one, is for our wedding anniversary. This year, my husband and I bought a Traeger, those barbecue smoker things, and right now I spend a silly amount of money on weird meat cuts to try to smoke. I've become obsessed with, like, smoking, briskets and all of these crazy meat cuts, but it's like an obscene amount of money sometimes. Like, sometimes I look at dinner and I'm like, I cannot believe that I just spent that much on a meal.

Kim Lyle: [00:51:15] That's so funny. You know, honestly, I'm having a hard time thinking of an answer right now because like before I would have said, like courses and books and everything like that, but I specifically don't anymore on purpose. The only thing I can think of right now, and I don't even know if this makes sense, but like I spend so much money on fruit in my house because my kids, my kids will not eat vegetables, like they'll eat like a couple of vegetables here and there, but it's like at least they eat fruit. So I'm constantly like, just eat berries. I don't care how much the berries are. Just eat the berries, like eat the $14 watermelons. Like I'm just like eat fruit at least because I can't get vegetables in here. So I guess maybe that.

Dawn Taylor: [00:51:54] So welcome to my life, but I'll also vegetables. I just yeah, I'm like, Oh no. My 10 pounds of blueberries this week are almost gone.

Kim Lyle: [00:52:03] Yeah. So I have a lot of berries, especially in my house and watermelon.

Dawn Taylor: [00:52:08] Oh, no. I think we spend like a family's budget worth of grocery money on, like, meat and berries right now. Yep. Legit. I get it. What is your secret guilty pleasure way to decompress? Do you watch like a silly, embarrassing show? Do you... one client goes, one person on here was like sex. A lot of sex. You haven't heard that episode, it's coming.

Kim Lyle: [00:52:35] Oh, that's so funny. What's my secret guilty pleasure. Oh, my gosh.

Dawn Taylor: [00:52:39] Like, what's your thing? What's your thing that you do to decompress? Like, you're like, number one thing to do?

Kim Lyle: [00:52:45] You know what? It's probably just going to be dance. I like to listen to music and, like, dance. So actually, that's a good one because yesterday I was by myself at home and I just put on like some pump up like dance music and I was just like dancing around my house and that just like, nourishes me. Like it just like, fills me up when I do that. And so, yeah, and like, that's thing to like, even if I'm feeling really, like, angry, like I'll put angry music on or if I'm feeling really moody, I'll put like, really deep, moody music on like I do really like to have music and dance around. So yeah, I do.

Dawn Taylor: [00:53:21] Are you a playlist girl?

Kim Lyle: [00:53:23] Yeah, Yeah, I am so like, I'm pretty crappy. Like, I don't really know a lot of different songs. So whenever I hear one just randomly, I'll just like, Oh, I like that song. I'll add that to like my moody, sad music or like my moody, angry music. And yeah, I'll do that. So yeah, so yeah, I do really like music. Or if I just need to like get back in my body and I'm stuck in my head and I really need to get into my, it's like it brings me down, right? And I use it a lot with my kids too.

Dawn Taylor: [00:53:47] I'm, I'm a fan. Is there a purchase of $100 or less that you've made recently that has made a big positive impact in your life?

Kim Lyle: [00:53:59] My goodness, Dawn, you're just catching me on the spot for all of these.

Dawn Taylor: [00:54:04] I know, I know. I do it to everybody. They're like, Can you send that in advance? And I'm like, No.

Kim Lyle: [00:54:10] So, I mean, the only the first thing that kind of comes to mind right now is there's this woman in Saint Albert who makes macrame. So anyway, she posted this one, and it was a tree of life that she had made for macrame. And I saw it and I was just like, oh, my God, I absolutely love it. And like, I have a thing with, like, trees and plants. I have a tree tattoo, I have trees and plants everywhere all the time. So I thought my logo is a tree. And so when I saw it, I was just like, Oh my God, I need this. And it just like filled me up when I got it. So.

Dawn Taylor: [00:54:44] That's amazing.

Kim Lyle: [00:54:45] Yeah, I love it.

Dawn Taylor: [00:54:46] I, it's funny because in the background, every time I ask these questions and because I'm recording podcasts so often, I always ask these questions of people into the background. I always answer for myself because it's different every time. And mine was like a good pair of slippers.

Kim Lyle: [00:55:02] I love slippers.

Dawn Taylor: [00:55:03] Like a good pair of like moccasin style slippers. Right now. It's just been like the biggest positive impact right now.

Kim Lyle: [00:55:12] I bought a Kobo a while ago and that one was a pretty sweet one too.

Dawn Taylor: [00:55:16] Oh, that's a good one.

Kim Lyle: [00:55:18] Yeah. I like having my books on there instead of like the actual book, so that was a good one. I like that.

Dawn Taylor: [00:55:24] And for anyone who's curious about this macramé tree lady, I'll link her stuff in the show notes so that you can find her and maybe help support a local business.

Kim Lyle: [00:55:34] She's so great. She does amazing work, I have two.

Dawn Taylor: [00:55:37] Oh yeah. We'll totally link that in the show notes. Is there what is it like an unusual habit or some like absurd thing that you love that everyone around you is like, whoa. Like it could be like a food thing or an activity or a music or like, what is something that you're just like?

Kim Lyle: [00:55:55] So I don't, the only thing that comes to mind is I love getting deep with people. Like someone will say something offhand and I'm just like, Oh, like I just instantly am like, Let's go deep on that, right? And they're like, like that was just an offhanded comment. And I'm like, No, there's so much more to it. So my husband will just try and have a conversation with me and like all of a sudden I'm like going deep. And he's like, Kim, I didn't want to like, this just wasn't supposed to go here. Yeah, exactly. But I just, like, I go deep with everything. So it's really hard for me to just have like a really light conversation.

Dawn Taylor: [00:56:30] Because when you and I hit it off, because we both do that.

Kim Lyle: [00:56:34] So that's what I love. Like, I love like one on one conversations where we solve the world and all of our issues and whatever, when you just, you just want to have like a light, easy, breezy conversation. I mean, I can do it sometimes, but most of the time I like to really dive deep into things. So.

Dawn Taylor: [00:56:49] No, I totally get it. I am like the worst at saying like the most inappropriately deep comments or like really dark. And it's like, Oh yeah, this is our second hangout. And I just went there. Oh, yeah, we're not having a third one, are we? I always laugh about that. I'm like, It's so fun to be my friend.

Kim Lyle: [00:57:07] I know exactly, right? Like, you really do want to hang out with me. I promise.

Dawn Taylor: [00:57:12] I promise that I'm also really funny. I just am going to dive really hard into something like. I mean, look at this podcast. I'm like, it's so perfect for you because you're so willing to talk about all the hard things and the deep things and like, just have those conversations? I don't know. I think that there's just, like, this cool level of humanity.

Kim Lyle: [00:57:34] Yeah, for sure.

Dawn Taylor: [00:57:35] Kim, thank you so, so, so much for hanging out with me today and having this conversation on an industry that is so huge and so massive. Almost everybody is somehow magically involved in it. And just even like support people going through it that are feeling like they're all so broken or they're not feeling the same. So if you are interested in finding Kim and her business and what she does and more about her, please check out our show notes. We're going to link to all of her social media, her business website, everything is in there. A beautiful picture of her so you can connect with her and even what she looks like. Not that looks matter, but I connect to photos so that matters to me. And if you really enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple or Spotify podcasts or wherever you get them and share this with your friends. And if you're interested in having a spot on the show where you talk about something you wish people would talk about, reach out. You can contact me through my website, TheTaylorWay.ca, or through any of my social media handles, which you can also find in the show notes. So have an amazing day and I will talk to you soon.

Follow the podcast

If you want to receive new podcast episodes automatically, you can follow us on Apple Podcasts or in your favourite podcast app.

Please leave us an Apple Podcasts review



Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review.